Perhaps getting paid a lot for something is overrated. I took my runners to a cross country meet in Flagstaff yesterday, which meant that we had to meet at school at 4:15AM and I didn’t get home until 5:30PM…a long, hard day.
There were about 40 teams at the meet, and as I watched other teams and coaches, I couldn’t help but be impressed with the level of passion I saw in the coaches. There were no coaches sitting in the shaded areas with their athletes--at least none that I saw--they were all out on the course, yelling and cheering for their runners. There were six different races, though, so it ended up being a lot of running for them. I was tired by the afternoon; it almost felt like I had also run a race.
I have always kind of thought that high pay brings out the most talented people for any given profession. It’s why I wish teachers got paid more--not because I feel underpaid, but because I think it would attract more of the brightest minds. I have said this before…I rarely come across an AP student who wants to be a teacher. Most of them want to be doctors and lawyers and have other such careers that offer high pay.
However, based on what I saw yesterday, I am not so sure that pay will attract the best. It might attract the brightest, but it might not attract the people with real passion.
Cross Country coaches get insultingly low pay. Since it’s my first year, I am not sure what my hourly wage would be, but based on the number of hours that I put in during the first few weeks and mathematically figuring out what that would be per hour, I came up with about nine dollars an hour--before taxes. Which is what all cross country coaches get paid, and despite that, I saw amazing coaches out there yesterday--people with talent and passion and excitement. There were coaches there who coached cross country back when I ran for my high school cross country team, and there were lots of new, young ones--and all of them seemed so “into” it, so focused on their athletes running well (which doesn’t necessarily mean fast.)
I don’t know…maybe if we want to get the best people for a particular job, we need to pay less, not more. Or maybe I should just shut up now, because the last thing we as a society would want to do is punish the professions that require passion and enthusiasm.
There must be a lucky few out there who ended up with both--whose passion brought them to a high paying profession. Coaching Cross Country is just not one of those professions.
Chris Marsh--mother, teacher, runner, coach....
Hey Chris: I think bloggers are the best example of passion being the motivation and not pay. Look at all the hours we put in to have our thoughts printed with zero compensation for our brilliant efforts. lol
Hey guys . . . are we ALL thoroughly impressed with Bodo this weekend or WHAT!! The ONLY thing Bodo failed to mention was the color of his speedo. When Bodo informed us of his prowess on the ballroom floor, I just HAD to send off some smoke signals to the Tribal Council in the hills. Once taught a "Tango"?? Once saw the Movie "Tango & Cash", but NOT at the Community College!
Knock it off, hoho. No one is amused.
Chris Marsh--mother, teacher, runner, coach....
I am..
ME TOO.
Bodo: I'd be interested in your definition of "a Jewish Princess."
Thanks Chris. I am neither surprised nor angry though. These guys have probably not watched much dance on TV, or they'd know how athletic ballroom is. In any event, it's good to know that only Hoho, Butch, and CJ remain on the "dark side". Do others wish to declare themselves in favor of personal attacks?
No Speedo for me; -- I bodysurfed in my running shorts, in Paradise Cove where "The Rockford Files" TV series was shot (anyone remember? I was such a fan that I bought the whole DVD collection). Don't buy the "Fish and Chips" at the Beach Cafe that James Garner seemed to like in the show. They are dripping with grease.
We had taken Maria to LAX such that she could have a direct overnight flight home to Bogota, since her mother is ailing.
Hi Mickey, a "Jewish Princess" is a term I read, I believe, in the novel "Marathon Man". It means a young Jewish woman who is so beautiful and intelligent that you just know she is special, regardless of her origin. Her husband David is a very lucky man, and looked it when I picked them up last night on a Redeye from New York, where they had been visiting family. What else does one have neighbors for when parking charges loom?
That's a hoot, dark side... Hope that Maria's mom will be ok, best wishes for the family...Actually if Bodo could just lighten up a few notches and see the intent of some of the posting and also wouldn't take himself so seriously, he might have more fun with some of these comments, I have noted that he is quite complex- and leans far too much in a counterproductive position of defensive seriousness - and those moments cheer me up...my only question is if he is like some who if you peel away layer after layer- what do you find at the core? - I wonder how far to the center Maria has gotten...... as I have said before, an analyst would find his personality quite interesting.. or he could just be another wizard... I only poke fun at people who I feel are competent in what they do - like Chris, and secure enough to see the inherent vanity that Man has concerning the problems we create for ourselves.. sometime my method falls on deaf ears, or is misunderstood - and nothing prevents me from critical analysis and pointing out the fallacy of negative thinking, or in some- feeling..
Ya know Bodo, now that you mention it, I don't think I have ever even felt like watching ballroom dancing... modern hockey is sissified enough as it is... as for Spedo's, I wear mostly that brand - they make more than glorified jock straps you know...
As to JAP's- Jewish American Princess - I always thought it was a kind of description of a negative and self absorbed female, and not necessarily Jewish .... as the joke goes, " a couple had just spent a few hours in a great lovemaking session, and were basking in the afterglow, the man asked his wife who was a (inappropriate term), " what are you thinking about right this minute ? what word describes your thoughts, she says "Peach"- he is kinda taken aback and says "what do you mean by that?" and she says "Peach, I think we should paint the bathroom Peach""... enjoy the holiday...
This censor is out of their tree.. J*A*P is now offensive?? how about Okie ? maybe some of us Okies could be offended if we could make a little money off of it.... PC lives on..
Bodo is a little dark himself. He just denies it more than some of us and doesn't have any fun with it. But I would rather have a dark sense of humor than none at all.
Midnightsstaff - A teacher at Monroe School, downtown, got fired for calling my grandfather an Okie back in the 1930s. It was the equivalent of calling someone trash at the time. "OKIES AND DOGS NOT ALLOWED INSIDE" His part of my family came here from Sharon, OK in 1936. Nowadays, though, I am kind of proud of being part Okie. There is something about living close to the dirt that makes you more humble and decent in my opinion.
Until Bodo chimes in with his his often Devil's advocate stance allow me to lead in.
Yes, "passion and excitement" I agree are visible in people when you get the opportunity to observe someone doing what they love to do, but this should not necessarily presume their "talent" for doing it. To be a "talented" coach you do need "passion and excitement," but you also need so, so much more. Knowledge and experience(both in running and in coaching) for starters come to mind. A coach with passion and excitement only can run "out on the course, yelling and cheering for their runners" who do not perform up to thier potential, while a talented coach will have his/her athletes finish to the best of thier potential every (nearly) race.
I know your blog was not intended to encompass all traits that make up a talented coach, but my point was just that a lot of running around and yelling should not be misconstrued as the signs of a good coach...unless the team wins. : )
posted by ChrisMarsh on Sep 3, 2007 at 04:54 AM Knock it off, hoho. No one is amused.
SPOKEN like a Teacher who has lost control of her class! Apparently Marsh has taken a survey, which makes her qualified to speak for everyone.
Actually, we are ALL very blessed, honored and quite greatful to KNOW Mister Bodo, and be privy to ALL the intricate details of every moment of his life, as thoroughly EXCITING as they are. WHO among us doesn't feel their pulse RACE a bit as he continually drops the names of all the thrilling places he goes and feats he accomplishes? Even Chris has a certain "blush" about her.
posted by ChrisMarsh on Sep 3, 2007 at 04:54 AM
Knock it off, hoho. No one is amused.
SPOKEN like a Teacher who has lost control of her class! Apparently Marsh has taken a survey, which makes her qualified to speak for everyone.
Actually, we are ALL very blessed, honored and quite greatful to KNOW Mister Bodo, and be privy to ALL the intricate details of every moment of his life, as thoroughly EXCITING as they are. WHO among us doesn't feel their pulse RACE a bit as he continually drops the names of all the thrilling places he goes and feats he accomplishes? Even Chris has a certain "blush" about her.
Butch, you haven't read the "Marathon Man" (provided you read at all). Probably just saw the movie with Dustin Hoffman. I don't watch movies If I've read the book, since with very few exceptions I found that they don't measure up. When you read, an entire movie with all its pictures plays right between your ears.
Maria says I'm the happiest though not most eventempered person she knows. I said that I was not offended (and I invited CJ to call me names, if that sends her). I know who I am. But I do think that unprovoked personal attacks are rarely funny, and I am touched that Chris defended me. Just for the heck of it, I am changing my picture for a few days for one in Speedos, a decade ago.
Lay off Chris, Hoho, and just flame me. I explained how I got to Malibu. It's a 7-hour drive; anyone can do it. How could that bother you?
CJ, I'm with you concerning being close to the soil. My family can trace themselves back to the same farm for at least 400 years. My dad was the first one to break away for the big city, to become a policeman (and meet my mother, who was from dirt-poor servant stock from another small village).
Well, gee Bodo, let me take a try to explain- it's a phenomenon called scope, there just isn't enough time in a 2 hour movie to expand the background and to develop plot line as to say one of Micheners novels.. by the way, I have read all of his works, even the one about the political machinations of Buck county Pa and his work there on the Kennedy campaign..... did you know that he is a big democrat? - sometimes you just have to separate the genius from the man, and enjoy the work.. but that is a tough if not impossible concept for many.. maybe it's the result of insecurity...
No actually Bodo, you don't know much about me, maybe it's a case of "misunderestimating" - For instance I haven't watched anything from Hollywood since - well, a long time.. maybe high school.. certainly not Marathon Man.. Let me let you in on a little clue about life in general, when you set yourself up for a heckler- like with that lame tango reference and ball room dancing.... you shouldn't be surprised when someone heckles.. everyone knows that the worst thing one can do after that is try and get even out of anger... you have a knack for just that...you get sucked in pretty easy... ever hear of Briar' Rabbit and the tar baby??- great life lessons in those children's tales.
Actually this blog is getting to be a pretty good study in the area of human psychology, if you read what people are saying, you get a pretty good idea of their mental state, I keep a copy of psychiatric mental health nursing on the night stand.. makes great reading when I notice obvious personality quirks... and society is just full of them..
If the flaming is getting too much for you, try a dab of Preparation H, it's also good for the wrinkles around the eyes..
Geesh. I thought I was the weird one. You people make me look sane, and that's a remarkable achievement considering I'm the one running around town with a gun and badge. LOL
I just wish I had posted my snarky comment about "ballroom" and Bodo's Speedo before everyone got snippy. Ya snooze, ya lose.
Bodo - I don't know where you get off saying or suggesting that I have continued to call you names. I am guilty of nothing more than a little psychoanalysis here, which I did in response to being called a part of the "dark side" by you. And of laughing at Hoho's krap ... which often amuses me, btw, even when it is directed at me. But, for the most part, I have avoided you very well for weeks and weeks now, haven't I? Nothing beats all the humor out of someone like being followed around and called a double-wide pig relentlessly ... Especially when the person calling you those names is lying like a big sack of potatoes.
I will tell you what does "send me" though --- That new picture. It almost knocked me off my chair. I guess I am going to need some of that Preparation H now for laugh lines ... I guess that's what I get for looking at a low quality a-hole. (I might as well get in a cheap shot now since I have already been accused of it).
I have been laying on that line for months now, seemed like time to break it out... haha..
But Butch, I am NOT "trying to get even out of anger", and in any event it was Hoho who razzed me. I am ok with you, despite my little snide remark which, according to your own philosophy, you should have absorbed with a pained smile.
And CJ, PEACE! I did not say you called me names, just that I invited you to do so (by signing a post "Ratface"). I am sorry I called you fat in indirect ways; -- it was just retaliation which I will not repeat in the face of the "a-hole" remark. The picture you had for a while showed everyone that you are in fact good-looking. What do I have to do to get along with you? On second thought, don't tell me; I'm afraid. Did you read what I said on the preceding page, about being close to the soil?
Actually I am not sure why you are inferring something I didn't say- I was just giving you my free advise, and counsel- as advertised in my profile.. Just because I or anyone else makes some if not innocuous at least benign observations that are general in nature, and based in truth, there is no reason for anyone to get defensive... unless it is too close to the truth and - one is in denial.. But that is not you Bodo, just another observation of life that is made by the son of a teacher..
Interestingly enough, I actually carry around with me a mason jar full of Oklahoma dirt.. it is a nice red, and reminds me that I should not get too full of myself- I keep it on my dresser... One of my grandfathers was a reservation Indian.. or indigenous American, wouldn't want to offend anyone... After all, that dirt is full of the souls of many who came before and left nothing, the same as I am destined to do..Happy labor day, fellow Union Comrades...
hi Chris,
Just an idea... I know this posting is out of date now... but i've been busy.
I think that what some comments included about hobbies, and about passion being important (but not everything) were pretty valid.
I have done two things in my life that were considered jobs (by the fact that I was paid and signed a contract) mostly for the satisfaction they give me as opposed to the money since it was very little.
I chose to do these things mostly because I wanted to, and I "could" do them without pay if I had to. One of them I would do without pay because I don't see it as a job (and I have a "real" job that can afford me that luxury), more as a really awsome oportunity. But the fact that I get paid... really has very little to do with it.
I think this is mostly what you are seeing. The "main" reason these coaches were so great with so little being paid them... is that they are able to do it without more money, or would essentially do it without pay if they didn't need it.
Oh and one other thing... you could do a whole essay on hobbies vs. "volunteer" jobs. (I wrote an essay for you on the difference between the words "art and craft") Well ok maybe that's not a real term... but a lot of people have this second hat they wear that gives their daily life more meaning, without increasing thier paycheck considerably. Because... is it a hobbie if it's contibuting to society/providing some service... and you get paid? Because it's not really volunteering if you get paid... right? But.. if you are working countless hours for a stipend that might cover the cost of gas to commute... it's not really a job either.
Just my two cents.
Looks to me like a case of you wanting to double dip the subsistence wage scale, kind of like Joe's widgets realizing he is selling widgets at a profit loss so he doubles production.. haha..
When did you realize that cross country coaching doesn't pay the same as a NFL head coach.. It's the same old story, compensation is usually based in a capitalistic society on supply and demand, If you haven't yet noticed, there is scant following for cross country in general, and less for women's cross country.. It is not broadcast in High Def.. the audience is usually limited to mom, dad and an occasional family pet...
I realize that you are not looking for the deep answers of life's questions, or you would delete my answers without reading them... I completely agree with your analysis- but as usual with reservations, how's that for conflicting statements ? .. I just don't want you getting the feeling you had the last word.. that is for me and Bodo...
Oh, and one more thing.
I think you are correct about the brightest minds seeking out higher paying jobs... and here is at least one reason.
Conciously or not, those of us who choose to follow our highest aspirations...are partially influenced by the fact that we know we will get more repect (from whom, you ask? oh that's another story) if we make more money.
And I think we feel the personal presure to be perfectionists and reach the goals we set for ourselves before we're even sure if it's what will make us happy. And then we feel that to do somthing less than what we think we're capable of would be giving up.
But maybe that's just me.
Did I realy spell the werd their as "thier" twice? I no my sentences are far from grammatically correct, but I thunk my spelling was more better than that. I know!! I'll blame it on my typing!
I think you are confusing hobbies and professions. Some people are very passionate about their hobbies and will spend countless hours on them with negative monetary compensation. I believe that coaching youth sports falls into this category. If girls cross country coaches suddenly earned six figure salaries I don't believe that the talent level would go down.
My guess is that many highly motivated people (and coaches) would choose their profession irrespective of the compensation. Society seems to fall into two distinct categories: Those who work for money and those who work for satisfaction. That is why we so often read about the high-paid so-and-so who chucked it all and left to do what they really enjoy doing. Ironically, it usually ends up being teaching. LOL
I live with a woman who went to school for five years in order to have the privilege of spending her days trying to educate special needs kids. She started out making $27K a year and 17 years later she is making a whopping $35K a year. I can assure you she doesn't do it for the money, but judging from the quality of applicants for new teachers and aides, I can tell you the schools often get "what they pay for."
I'd say they got you at a bargain, both ways. Keep up the good work!!
Honestly.....do you ever get tired of tooting your own horn?
First, you should enjoy this comic. It's right on the money. (oops punny)
http://www.azstarnet.com/ss/2007/09/02/198515.pngSecond, I'm a good teacher. Grew up wanting to teach high school English. Taught my younger sisters how to read before the school did. (Their response? A note telling my family to stop teaching these kids to read. They're ahead of their classes and bored.) A Catholic school teacher down the street would give me some of her old textbooks and a teacher's edition. I was teaching my young sisters Beowulf! I went on to teach outside the family. Dancing school (tap, ballet, jazz and acrobatics), gymnastics, Bible school, typing, word processing, pc usage, legal practice and terminology for secretaries, paralegal studies and computer programming.
When I saw how far behind most students were from where they should have been, I knew there would be a lot of remedial teaching involved and not the literature I was dying to teach. And the attitudes of kids, including lack of respect and desire to learn. The crimes committed against teachers by students. Metal detectors and police? School politics. Parents who would rather take a teacher to task than their child. Absurd exercises and experiments teachers have to go through that add nothing to their students' educations. No, thanks. Not when I could get jobs for three to five times the money that were safer and less political. Maybe that means I wouldn't have made a good teacher. Or maybe teachers should be paid better for such an important job - teaching the people who hold the future of and hope for our country in their hands. How that doesn't rank up there as one of the most important things a person can do escapes me.
Perhaps if teachers were better paid (attracting some of us with passion who still like to eat), the kids' reading levels would be higher. Maybe there wouldn't be as much crime in the schools. Maybe the parents would be better educated too. I don't know. I love teaching and I'm good at it. In most other professions that translates into good pay. But not, as far as I can tell, in the public education system.
I'm grateful that there are some excellent teachers - and I get the impression that you are one of them - who are willing and able to make the sacrifice. And I'm truly sorry that you have to. In my (hypothetical) island nation dictatorship, I think I would reverse the salaries of athletes and teachers.
I've still managed to find passion in my work; at least in part because I usually wind up finding ways to incorporate teaching into whatever work I do. Part of that is my preference for teaching a man to fish rather than giving him a fish. Makes any organization more efficient. I love that "aha" moment when everything clicks and the student understands and can then take what you're teaching and fly with it. It's fun watching their minds expand just that much more and being part of it.
Hey guys, I just came back from Malibu Beach where my boy and I have been surfing until 2pm (wish I hadn't promised our HOA Treasurer to pick her up at Sky Harbor tonight. Don't misjudge me, she's not an old lady but a Jewish Princess). Here's my take on coaching:
You do indeed have to do it out of passion. To me that means that the pay is irrelevant. I mean, we all, and that includes Chris, have a day job, and while $9/hr is 50% above the minimum wage, the real reward is the trust and the appreciation of the runners.
Margaret, you left "ballroom" out of your list of dance teaching. I used to be a competitive ballroom dancer, and that is my passion. Once taught a Tango Class at Community College.