A national opinion survey sponsored by the National Womens' Law Center and Planned Parenthood Federation of America included Democrats, Republicans, independents, Catholics and evangelical Christians (I don't know in what proportions) "uncovered deep dissatisfaction with the country's current approach to reproductive health issues."
For example 76% of those polled supported Comprehensive Sex Ed. vs. 14% for Abstinance only and 10% saying "it depends."
76% agreeing is a huge number in a country that can't agree on much.
Personally I think abstinance only ed. is a waste of money. Abstinance is great, but we need to arm our children with medically accurate information too. Or I'd support a more modest goal, abstinance through high school, for example. I think that goal is doable (so to speak.) Abstinance until marriage just doesn't make sense as an expectation when most people aren't getting married until they are in their mid-late 20's, or early 30's.
Did you know a bill that would require all information regarding sex. ed/ abstinance given our children be medically accurate in Arizona schools FAILS every year, even this last year. Seems unbelievable, but it is our AZ legislature at work.
What do you think?
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
At this point in my life, I
At this point in my life, I am a big proponent of abstinance until marriage, and I'll tell you why. As I look back on my life - sex is the root cause of the event that was single biggest regret of my life(which was an abortion at 25 - I regret and atone for this every day of my life), and it was the motivating factor in some of the worst decisions I made. If I had do-over power I would have abstained until I was married!!!!! Abstinance would have saved me from a ton of stress and tremendous pain, and I am willing to bet if a majority of people think about it, sex is also the cause of most of the bad decisions and pain in their lives. What good comes out of sex before marriage? Unintended pregnancies, sexually transmitted disease, drama and hurt feelings - for what? For nothing. Sex ruins lives.
Abstinance is God's plan for us and there is good reason for that. That is not to say we should raise our children to be ignorant of the way their bodies work, but we need to do everything we can to try and keep them on the appropriate path - for their own good.
That's my opinion - I know it won't be a popular one, and I will probably be accused of being a narrow minded hypocrite, not PC, and all that, but this is honestly the way I feel.
What an interesting
What an interesting conversation. I agree with you on abstinence. I pray my kids will make the right decisions, but I do believe we need to educate our kids about STDs, unplanned pregnancies, etc.
I love being a mom!
I consider myself
I consider myself conservative, but I don't feel I need to make decisions for other people. We learn from our mistakes and if you have learned, although a hard lesson, great.
Do as I say, but not as I do?? Not my motto. I hope I teach my children by example and we talk about things as well. The bottom line is I can't be everywhere and I have to have trust in my children to do the right thing and that I have done my job.
Information is power. Do we have a problem with helping our children become more powerful? I hope not.
I find it sad we continue to bury our heads in the sand. The adage being, it worked for me so it should be good enough for you, but did it really work??
KarilouMomof2 is a discussion leader for arizonamoms.com living in Tempe. Her daughters are 9 and 6.
Well, I did learn a very
Well, I did learn a very hard lesson - and there was nothing "great" about it. I would do anything to spare my son similar heartache. It is great to lead by example -for those of you who are so perfect - but when not all of your examples have been stellar, then you hope that they can benefit from your miserable experiences. I don't think of that as "Do as I say, not as I do", but rather "Please don't make the same mistakes I did."
Again, I never said we should keep children ignroant about the way their bodies work, but we need to be careful about presenting information in such a way that it implies consent and a tacit approval of sex outside of marriage.
Another thing - we have more openness about sexual matters and more sex education now than ever before - and all this education seems to be doing very little to stop the spread of sexually transmitted diseases and prevent unwanted pregnancies. Look at how many people are having children out of wedlock these days, and think nothing of it. People know all about the dangers, but they still have that "Oh, it won't happen to me" kind of naivite. I was 25 and I knew all about birth control, I was well educated but still very stupid, and I thought, well, what are the chances, just this once? And then I learned the answer to that question. I wasn't lacking for information, what I was lacking was a moral compass that would have told me this fleeting moment of fun could ruin my life. I think that if the message had been drummed into my head that abstinence is better, perhaps I would not have been such an idiot. Who knows, hindsight is always 20/20.
I look at my son and I see that he is so full of promise, and I cringe at the thought that he could be de-railed at some point by the consequences of sexual activity. I would really hate to see some girl ruin his life that way. That is what happened to my own father, he got married at 18 out of obligation and had to give up a college scholarship, etc..........that marriage made him bitter as all hell and that's when he started drinking......five more marriages and his life went nowhere after that.
At the ripe old age of 35 I
At the ripe old age of 35 I am only now seeing the wisdom in absitnance. I don't even think I want to kiss until I have a ring on my finger. Seriously! Here's why - sex, kissing and the whole shebang (no pun intended) mucks everything up. As women, we are said to be attached to a man for three weeks after sex. Men don't have this problem. It's not that their pigs either! It's just that for evolutionary reasons the attachment would not serve them.
Physical relations just cloud the real issue at hand which is - are we a match?
With that said, I think sex ed. is valuable, but if they're going to go there, then both sides have to be presented. That would be the right way to do it - present a balanced story. Part of a sex ed curriculium could easily about child rearing, about abstinance, etc. I think that would truly serve our kids or at least get them asking their parents and aunts, uncles, etc. questions to get conversations going.
I'm always for education,
I'm always for education, whatever the topic. Forbidding sex or even talking about it is like waving red meat in front of a lion. Sex is a huge, natural part of life and I think it should be discussed in healthy ways with our kids, often, at age appropriate levels. It's taken me a looooong time to get over my mother's issues with sexual repression. I would never revisit that on my girls.
Ms. M
Here's a novel idea...tell
Here's a novel idea...tell kids the truth! The whole truth! Both sides, no lying, no preaching, just the God's honest truth. Think about it, their truth, in this day and age, is scarier than our truth was. We had VD, they have AIDS. We could get sick. They can die! We had pot. They have ecstasy, meth and stronger, more powerful drugs.
Sometimes, the truth is stranger than fiction and for my kids, they know it all. We talk about everything. We tell our kids that we had friends who drank too much, got in their cars and died or killed others. We tell our kids that we had friends who took drugs, got depressed and hung themselves. We tell our kids that doing meth once can mean the end of life as they know it. Just once!
I know it's sounds like we've frightened them, and maybe even brainwashed them, but we really feel that they need to know the raw consequences of actions they are definitely not ready for. But when they are ready, they have the tools they need to keep themselves, and those they're with, safe. Those tools include respecting themselves and those they date. Without all the facts and fictions presented, they lose.
Molly, I agree. I remember
Molly, I agree. I remember one of the only people to address "life" straight on was a speaker in high school, I think it made an impression because it was the first time, someone was so honest and mature about the topic. She put it all out there. She asked the boys if they knew how much child support was? Then she did the math for them. Then she said, "that is expensive sex isn't it." Then asked the girls how they'd balance their dreams with a baby and said "that's expensive sex isn't it" . Her message was "think first, don't put yourself in that position in the first place. Sex isn't something to mess around with."
I think we'd all agree that abstinance is best, absolutely foolproof if it is true abstinance (I know of at least one "virgin" pregnancy when sperm was around and made it's way to the egg, past an intact hymen. What a bummer for them, Can you imagine??) So abstinance has to be strictly defined, Many abstinance only programs today only count intercourse, so other potentially "dangerous" activities aren't being monitored or addressed.
I just don't think abstinance works, the body isn't rigged that way, and I disagree that abstinance is God's Plan. Song of Songs is very sexual, maybe that's why it's a hardly mentioned book of the Bible??
The goal is to never have unintended pregnancies. I think that is a goal both pro-choice and pro-life people can agree on.
I think the adage "Knowledge is power" is absolutely what we need to use as a corner stone to sex ed.
Sorry so preachy, I just feel like we are doing our kids a disservice by not giving them medically accurate info, which includes the likelyhood of pregnancy rates, etc.
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
I totally agree with
I totally agree with lovemy4... .
Whatever your religious/ moral beliefs about sex are, it is still imperative that young people have accurate, complete information about their bodies and their sexuality.
Look around: our kids are constantly inundated with sexual messages, on TV, movies, popular music, etc. It's everywhere, and if you think the youth culture won't influence your kids, you may be in for a surprise when they reach their teens.
I read somewhere that the majority of teens get their sexual "information" from their peers or from the media, and I believe it.
But there are also studies that show clearly that the more comprehensive sex education a teen receives, the less likely they are to engage in early sexual behavior. And when they do become sexually active, young adults who have had comprehensive sex ed, are more likely to practice safer sex, including taking precautions to prevent unwanted pregnancies and STIs.
As a former junior high science teacher, I've seen firsthand what passes for sex education in our schools. The abstinance only sex ed program that the Chandler School District brings in is just that. Abstinance. Period. Lots of scare tactics and morality, not even basic anatomy, and outright misinformation being taught in our public schools by contracted employees of religoius organizations with not even basic teaching credentials. (And by the way, don't think that there aren't junior high kids having sex, because many are)
It's outrageous. Our kids deserve better, and as parents we should be demanding that our schools address this.
OK, off my soapbox now! :0)
Jenny David
Doula, Childbirth Educator, Breastfeeding Counselor
www.valleychildbirth.com
Are we forgetting that the
Are we forgetting that the little poeple we call teenagers, aren't adults yet?
Yes, it is evey parents hope their child will wait until marriage or at least wait until their realationship has lasted longer then a movie before having sex.
However when your teen leaves your home, they are on their own. Yes, we hope they have listen to every moral and value we have put upon them since they were old enough to say "Mama".Chances are they are making their own moral's and values, rather then doing what we say is best. Again we can only hope.
Lets see we send them to school, we send them to tutoring , to church, educational outings and activities. Why? So they can learn.Why would we say no to sex education. The one thing we know is going to happen in their life. That doesn't make any sense to me.
I know two girls sixteen and they come from very diffrent homes and school.One raised in a christian home, famliy has plenty of money.Mom and dad at home.Sex isn't such a open book.The other raised by a single mother, money always tight and sex is very much an open topic.
And they both had sex at sixteen.Lucky for them they were educated in some fashion and knew what they needed to do to protect themselves. They knew the conseqences if not protected.
Times are diffrent these days...kids learn about sex on the play ground, lunch room, TV, computer.Why not have an actual class teaching and giving the children the right information.
Song of Psalms is a very
Song of Psalms is a very beautiful look at what love is about between a husband and wife.... MY GOD doesnt make mistakes and DOES not contradict what he teaches HIS people about morals, values and principles.. I don't know were you worship or believe, but when the subject of sex and love and morals, a marriage is taught, this is the book mentioned..at least where I attend and, It was also taught to the HS group, when the subject of sex and abstinenance until marriage was taught to the kids.. And I have a high respect for the parents and leaders that came forward to tell the kids, what having sex before marriage did and how it affect them..
" just my Opinion"
I referred to the 22th book
I referred to the 22th book in the Old Testiment - SONG OF SONGS. It's in every BIble... It is about King Solomon and isn't about marriage, it is about love and sexuality. The power of sexual love, how overwhelming and powerful, intense and precious. It compares breasts to "twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lillies (4:5) among other things. Read it. It was included in my Presbyterian High School youth group discussion of sex, to keep us from feeling guilty about how we feel. These feelings that are new to us have actually been around forever. THrough the generations it is agreed that the intensity of the experience is best in a safe, committed relationship, ideally marriage. And that the hope is we will all wait for marriage.
I'd love for kids to wait, I waited longer than anyone I know. But I want adults to be aware that sexuality is O.K. (and is in the Bible, pretty explicitly, but ignored). Sex is O.K. to talk about and once the process is understood you talk about the emotional and physical consequences and why abstinance is safest choice.
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
I suppose this does not
I suppose this does not apply to me, since I opted for private school for my son(and this is an example of why), but I think this really needs to be something that comes from the parents. We should be in control of the content presented and responsible for educating our children about sex and morality. There are other consequences besides physical ones, and we need to emphasize the emotional and spiritual damage that can be done by careless sex. I don't want someone else putting a liberal spin on things and giving my son the impression he can just bang away as long as he's practicing "safe sex".
As for the comment that abstinence before marriage is not God's plan for us - really? You think that God approves of people sleeping around? Perhaps I am missing something, but I doubt that.......
While I understand and
While I understand and respect your religious/ moral position, and agree that it absolutely is a parent's right and responsibility to provide their kids with moral and religious guidance about sex, I think you're wrong about sex ed .
Good sex ed programs do not put a "liberal spin" (whatever that is) on things or tell kids that they can "bang away as long as they are practicing safe sex."
What they do provide is accurate, complete information, which many,if not most kids don't get. Yeah, parents should absolutely get in on the conversation and discuss their family's moral and religious values vis a vis sex, but do it along with complete, accurate information, and not instead of it.
Also, our schools educate many students whose parents are not able or willing to have those hard talks with their kids, and those young people need and have a right to this informaion as well. I think it just logically should be a regular part of the science/health curriculum.
Jenny David
Doula, Childbirth Educator, Breastfeeding Counselor
www.valleychildbirth.com
Arizona has the 2nd highest
Arizona has the 2nd highest teen (15-19 year olds) pregnancy rate in the U.S. and the highest among Latinas. 37 kids in AZ get pregnant EVERY DAY!
How incredibly irresponsible it is to use abstinence-only sex education in the very communities with the highest rates of teenage pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases. How very intellectually dishonest and reprehensible to use federal and state funding for abstinence-only sex education at all when it has been proven to not be effective… Congress has spent over $1 billion in taxpayer funds on abstinence-only education since 1996 with little oversight or evaluation… Abstinence-based, medically accurate, age-appropriate, comprehensive sex education does work.
Implementing a medically accurate sex education program for Arizona youths could help reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and combat the rising rates of sexually transmitted infections in AZ… I know firsthand the power of education to help teens make responsible decisions about their health.
Providing your kids with information will not encourage teen sex, it will only educate them so they can make informed decisions whenever the time comes.
How does this not apply to
How does this not apply to you?? My son goes to a private school as well a Christian school at that.However that doesn't mean the topic of sex shouldn't be mentioned.
I am not just worried about my son. I am worried about the person he will eventually one day have sex with.I hope they were educated .
So this issue of sex education isn't just for my child.It is for all children.A " Liberal spin"......call me silly but the last time I looked around Republicans....Democrats...and Liberal's are having sex.Don't make this about politics.
Since you mentioned God....let me tell you a story.
By the way I am a Christian.
My father sexually abused me from age two through fourteen, until I had finally had the strength to confront him.Let me mention he was a Pastor until I was six.He ended his life the day after I confronted him.
From age fourteen through seventeen I had sex....alot of sex!
I alone found help and was able to learn of my behavoir and got educated.
It would of been great to have a class on sex education. I would have learned and even maybe would of been able to get some resources early on so I could of ended the abuse.
So, yes I think God is perfectly okay with me.I think God understands.I think God loves me.....and more importantly he doesn't judge me! He is a forgiving God.Right?
So , you see Sex education isn't just about " Careless Sex".It is about education.You and your famliy may not benefit from it.However if you look outside the box there maybe a child who is benefiting from the class.
Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for sharing. Sounds to me like he not only loves you and understands but has given you peace. What a gift after your struggles. It must be hard to share experiences like yours, but it is so important for the dialoge. You did "open the box" even more for me. Hope you have a good day!
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
Lovemy4: Thank you for the
Lovemy4:
Thank you for the support and encouragement. I must be honest. I was afraid to look at the reply's.I can only imagine someone thinking I am some psycho abused women going off on a rant.
I very much didn't want, what I said to sound like that.I have had years of therapy and I am very much at peace with my abuse.
I am very passionate when topics of " Sex" come up.Not only because of my own abuse but because I have been able to learn from others in groups and meeting.In fact one of my healing assignments was to be involved in a men's ( recovery) sexual preditor group.Of course that was years after starting my therapy, so I was strong enough.I did it for six months.I learned alot from that group.
I guess through my experiences.I have had to learn to "look outside the box".And I am so glad I am a person who can do so.
My story isn't hard to share at all.When I share others learn, get educated.I in return also learn.
I am having a wonderful day and I hope you are having a wonderful blessed day!
Well, I admire your
Well, I admire your strength. Sounds like you'd be a great speaker with the Planned Parenthood Speakers Bureau. It is reps. from this group that present discussions on healthy relationships, pregnancy, stds, etc. etc to churches, prisoners, schools, etc. when asked. I was going through training when I got pregnant with twins, and just haven't gotten back. Great bunch of people.
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
Lovemy4: Well, you have your
Lovemy4:
Well, you have your twins you need to attend to for now. But when you have time you should finish your training.You seem like you have a wonderful spirit about you! I very much thank you for the support.
I will look into the Planned Parenthood Speakers Bureau .I am glad that you are able to give me this wonderful advice.
HAVE A WONDERFUL DAY!
:)
:)
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
I'd love to hear if you do
I'd love to hear if you do join. I think you'd be great!
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
I can't help thinking that
I can't help thinking that much of the resistance to comprehensive sex education is the result of an exaggerated misrepresentation (whether intentionally, subconsciously, or completely unintentionally) of what people are really proposing.
I agree very much with the comment made by one poster who said that people on all sides of the issue should be able to agree that at least one major goal should to prevent unplanned/unwanted pregnancies. We might compare it to kids just learning how to drive. Obviously there are certain behaviors we hope they follow while driving themselves (whether it be obey the speed limit, not texting friends or talking on the phone, or limiting the number of people they drive) so that they won't get in a car crash -- however, it's clear that they must also be informed of the safety devices of the car and how important it is to wear a seatbelt, which will save them even if they make a stupid decision (which people of all ages are prone to do now and again) against our wishes (or in this case if someone else makes a poor decision and hits them).
Granted it is an oversimplification as most examples are, but it illustrates that proponents of more than the abstinence only approach don't want their kids "banging away" anymore than abstinence only proponents. It's simply that we recognize that not everyone will be abstinent and it seems unethical to me to intentionally deprive young adults of information that would help them stay safer, healthier, and maybe even more comfortable talking about sex and safety with partners if they simply had access to more information.
On a final note or two, I am a male college student [sorry for invading the moms website but I saw the conversation in the Scottsdale Republic section of the AZ Republic and thought I would read what people had to say about the subject] and would like to note that 1) the guys and gals who are guarded most strictly and told what to do by their parents tend to be more wild than those who are trusted to make decisions for themselves, which to me is an argument in favor of the information-and-trust approach.
Also, some of the most confident ladies I know (and respect) are those that know about sex, know about their bodies, and know more about the benefits and drawbacks of sex than just that abstinence prevents all of them. And by confident I mean that they treat themselves with the respect that they deserve as young women (which is really the goal that I think all parents should have for their daughters) and will make the decision to have sex when it is right for them.
I really believe that if a room full o/pen-minded abstinence-only proponents and a room full of open-minded comprehensive sex ed. proponents sat down in a room together and tried to really understand one another that we would see that most of our goals are common and we simply have been forming two teams instead of one.
Well college guy, thanks for
Well college guy, thanks for you well expressed thoughts. Hope you chime in whenever you want!
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
I think comprehensive sexual
I think comprehensive sexual education is critical. Forget about pregnancy, the larger fear is AIDS and other sdts. This is a different world from the one many of us grew up in and we need an education (at home and in school) that addresses today's very real concerns.
Susie is a discussion leader in the east valley for arizonamoms.com. She has two sons, ages 6 and 2.
I agree with those of you
I agree with those of you who believe children should be educated and given access to information that will keep things in perspective.
Considering that all children are born gendered, it seems only fair that frank discussions of bodies should be included in the ABC's of becoming a responsible participant in society. True, mistakes will be made, but ignorance is far more dangerous than information--because what they dont know can hurt them.
Our society has moved further and further away from daily awareness of the "circle of life" concept; both death and sex are taboo, scary "adult" subjects, and yet they are simple facts of humanity. We could blame the part about sex on a sublimated Puritan values that helped found this country, but until all of us are comfortable acknowledging that sex is a natural--albeit powerful and potentially dangerous--human drive (and the earlier we learn to recognize it the better), and that very reason we're here (somebody had sex), is because of its persistent appeal, it's likely that the frightening statistics of pregnant children, STDs and/or other byproducts of ignorance will ride the wake of abstinence only "education."
Give them facts, and let them ask the hard questions that help all of us get to why this question (tell them or not tell them?) is so uncomfortable.
teaching them abstinance,
teaching them abstinance, does not just say you shouldnt have sex until marriage, they teach them about there bodies and such, but they teach them to have self respect, dignity, and respect for others.. And our society moving further away from daily awareness, is a bunch of bull, all you see on tv and alot of the shows geared toward kids is about being obsessed with your bodies and being sexual.. I don't know what planet your on, but that's all that's out there, in the stores, the pictures they have posted and everywhere... Ignorance comes from these parents that think if we tell the kids about the "act" of sexual intercourse and the different kinds of sex you can have will keep them safe, and just add "use a condom or birth control".. Teaching both girls and boys to wait until marriage to share this specialness with that one person will not only keep from std's spreading but also a better chance of their marriage lasting in love and commitment.. But only a parent who also teaches morals,values and principles to there kids and sets an example also by what they watch on tv and what they talk about because their little ears hear everything....can the kids learn self respect and value in themselves and others. My girls have never sat in the sex ed classes that are taught.. and only when my teenager took health in hs did she learn on the sex ed part. But we had sat and talked with her ourselves and we have also done with our younger one. We are proud to say we take 100% responsibility in teaching our kids and not allowing the school to, like alot of you are, and then later on in life you will have ability to try to blame the shcools for something you should be doing yourself as parents but arent..
" just my Opinion"
I agree with this - it is
I agree with this - it is not that we want to keep kids "ignorant", if anything quite the opposite. But - this education should be controlled by the parents - not the school.
There is more to sex than just the mechanics, and I feel it is so important to get the message across that there are spiritual and emotional consequnces - not just the possible physical ones - to be dealt with as a result of sex outside marriage. Just handing a kid a big handful of condoms or getting them on the pill is not protecting them.
I am sure that no one that
I am sure that no one that is in support of medically accurate sex education thinks that handing a child a bag of condoms is the end of our responsibility in educating. Abstinance is part of any sex ed. class I've ever heard of, with absolute praise for being the ONLY sure fire method to not get pregnant or sick. However, it is not the only option, nor the easiest option and the least we can do is make sure our children understand what can happen and how the act of having sex effects them emotionally as well as physically. I agree Katy that mechanics aren't the total picture, but I think they are an important part of the picture. And I agree Parents should talk about it with their kids too. Just because schools adress it doesn't mean that parents can't.
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
I think that abstinance is
I think that abstinance is great in some point of views. For example I have suffered a sex problem and since then I was not myself. After coming out of a drug treatment center I finally found the answer. Abstinance was made my life some easy and problem free.
I don't like polls, just
I don't like polls, just because 76% say education it doesn't mean they are against abstinence - it just means that they agree education is necessary.
I agree education is necessary - in our family we answer questions, we share our (some of our) experiences, and we give our opinions and beliefs.
We talk abstinence but I refuse to put my child in a position where they are wondering why or what could happen, and having another hormone-raging kid try to explain it to them.