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When is it ok to fight back? Plus I am mad at the PE teacher!!

divaballerina's picture

Ok, so my husband and I have two schools of thought on this regarding our son and how he should handle himself if he gets into a fight at school.. I say he should always tell a teacher to help resolve the conflict Even though I have a redheaded temper I can honestly say I have never in my life been in a fist fight. (unless once with my older sister when she was babysitting me counts). My husband has a rule that our son better not ever throw the first punch and should try and resolve the problem but if he gets punched, jumped, spit on or whatever then he can fight back. So I know my son may not tell the truth about homework sometimes but the kids ALWAYS tells the truth about other stuff and especially stuff having to do with conflict at school and he sort of pats himself on the back for never starting fights. Last week he came home from school and told me that as he was walking by the buses (he's a walker) a boy from his class who happens to love the Phx suns stuck his head out of the bus and said to my son nice hat (which was a Dallas mavericks hat) and spit on his hat but ended up landing on my sons hat AND face. So my son walked through the door and told me what happened and told me that he was going to get in a fight the next day at school. He said a kid spit on him. I listened to his story and explained that in no uncertain terms was he to get into a fight and then I called the counselor at the school hoping to get her before she left campus. I did and we talked and agreed that the other boy needed to be talked to and that she would say that she was told about the incident by another student not by my son being a tattle tell.

So, TODAY... My son came through the door fist thing out of his mouth was "mom I was jumped". He said that in PE (last class) they were playing basketball and my son was blocking and another boy either fell b/c my son fouled him or caught an elbow, Anyway, my son has a tendency to not know his size when playing basketball. The PE coach asked Joshua if everything was OK, meaning was there a problem and my son said "nothing was wrong" at the time he was asked my son didn't think he and the other boy had any issue. After class they walked outside and the other boy threw his books on my sons head and then jumped my son. My son being bigger was able to knock the kid off him and he started to punch the other kid and right then the PE teacher came around the corner and broke up the fight. She wrote in her report that my son "deliberately lied to her and waited until after class and jumped this other kid,... I got my info from the report the PE teacher wrote and handed in to the counselor who I called immediately after school. Two other boys saw what happened and they can attest to my son not starting the fight. I am mad at what the PE teacher wrote, she admits she did not see what happened but then wrote down what the "thinks happened" and she said that my son 'deliberately lied"??? At the time he didn't think their was a problem. I promise I am not being nieve thinking maybe my son could be not telling the truth b/c about this stuff he always tells the truth...He is pretty laid and I know he is not one of those kids that would start something like that anyway...

So, I'm mad at the PE teacher and I think I should set up a meeting with the principal. But I know that my son will still be in hot water b/c he DID hit back. Which is what his dad told him to do if he gets jumped. So what would ya'll do??? How can I defend my son even though he was in the wrong two... I know two wrongs don't make a right but he shouldn't be in as much trouble as the other kid b/c he didn't start it right??? Thanks ladies!!! Help me out on this one.. I am sure I will be talking to the counselor again tomorrow....

Elizabeth is a discussion leader for arizonamoms she writes about everything from her needing mommy advice to crazy and silly stuff that happens. She lives in the West Valley with her husband and 3 children, Joshua 12, Brooke 2 and Mason 10 months

I think you need to trust

mouse_tales's picture

I think you need to trust your instincts here. The absolute best advocate your child has is his parents. As moms, we have a great desire to protect our children and when somebody does something to hurt or harm them, our reaction is a STRONG one - you know, the one that you cannot describe...you just know when it happens because it wells up from the bottom of your feet and shoots straight out through the top of your head? ;-)

Here are my thoughts. I would suggest going to the meeting prepared - like you would for a business negotiation - and stay positive. Bring in all of the facts, including a copy of the email exchange with the P E teacher, and stay focused on the actual events and your son's history of behavior (i.e., that he has never been in trouble for something like this before, that his behavior at home is consistent, etc). Make a proactive effort to refrain from becoming emotional during the discussion. Fair judgement should be based on actual facts rather than just opinions.

Consider writing a list of the points you would like to make during your meeting and be sure to take it with you. In many ways, you are preparing for a negotiation of sorts. You are going to a meeting on their turf, so to speak, so you'll want to be aware of staying focused on the actual event and their recommended resolve.

Also, bring a pad of paper to take notes! There's nothing worse than having a meeting of a serious nature and not being able to remember exactly what the other person said. Taking notes during a conversation adds an element of authority (for your part) to the situation. Your son's safety during the school day is 100 percent their responsibility. Period. (And, that includes the school bus!)

I have to say that there have been times when I was unsure of my abilities to keep the "momma lion" at bay and I brought my husband with me. Maybe that would be an option?

I hope this helps. Good luck!



Mouse_tales is a discussion leader in the East Valley for arizonamoms.com. She is a business owner, community volunteer, and aspiring runner (whew!), who most enjoys her roles as wife & mom. Her children range in age from 4 to 13.

You got some good advice

hobbymommy's picture

You got some good advice here. My first thought was to tell you to remain calm when you go into the meeting. You may even want to prepare yourself by thinking worst case scenario about what they may say about your son. Not that they will be right if they dwell on the negative, but if you at least are ready for that posibility, then maybe your first instinct won't be to get defensive. If they see you as a cool-headed, intelligent mom, that will go a long way toward their impression of your son. I think you do need to address the issue, and I would want to clear things up so my son isn't labeled the bad guy, but you will need to be very logical and peaceful during your conversation. Hope it goes well.



Hobbymommy, 38, is a discussion leader from Mesa. She is a happy stay-at-home mommy to a 3-year-old daughter and a 1-year-old son.

Okay, I know as a mom you

twinsmom's picture

Okay, I know as a mom you want to defend your son's actions, especially since it seems he was not in the wrong. However, no matter what really happened school policy states (usually) that there is a no tolerance policy when it comes to fighting whether your son threw the first punch or not. My son got into a fight at school last year and was suspended for 3 days. He did not start the fight, he was defending himself as my husband and I have taught him, but the fact remains that he was involved ina fight and according to policy, had to suffer the consequences. As a teacher, I understood those consequences and understood the school's position. As a mother I didn't want my son suspended, especially for defending himself, but that's just the way it is. My son was upset that he was suspended, but I explained to him that the school has no other choice. He now knows that if he gets in a fight at school he will be suspended, but he will not be in trouble at home as long as he was just defending himself.

It's never right to fight or

sdebralh's picture

It's never right to fight or fight back. My mom always told us to keep our record clean, and thank goodness. In todays economy, it hard to find a job with a college degree and clean record, so you sure don't want your son to think its good to fight back and then one day when he is older, he'll be into bigger fights.Keep the record clean, because one day, he will need it to land him that great job.



One Happy Mom in Arizona.

I disagree that it is never

AZColumbine's picture

I disagree that it is never right to fight back. It is inappropriate to fight back if there are other means of resolving the situation, including leaving the situation. However, if a child is being physically abused - for an example, pushed to the ground, sat upon, and punched - you better believe it is OK to fight back! I cannot imagine anyone in their right mind would seriously suggest a child in such a scenario should lie there and take it.

If you can get away and yell

sdebralh's picture

If you can get away and yell for help, or go tell a teacher. I disagree. I will teach my son to try and get away. Its not worth getting your teeth knocked out, or going blind just because of some disrespectful kid that was raised to fight. If he is in a dark alley by himself fighting for his life, I'd say try your best to get away if possible.
My mother never taught us to fight period. I see why our kids are so messed up and heartless these days, because parents encourage it.
If a driver comes by and wants to race, are you going to suggest that he should drive faster than the other driver?
We have to teach our kids to walk away.
I'm sure the President got his title by fighting everyone that tried to fight him.



One Happy Mom in Arizona.

Wow the wonders of school.

Lavender_Sea's picture

Wow the wonders of school. I was always picked on in school cause I was a girl (and all of the boys were smaller than I was strengh wise), and because I wasn't in a gang or even wanted to be. Kids are mean lets face it. But I can tell you that I used to defend myself. The boys would jump on my back trying to fondle me (stupid boys), and I would grab them off my back above my head and bend down and flip them over my shoulder (I had to do this all of the time at some point they got the idea, and I never got into trouble cause the resess teachers always knew that I was defending myself). Another time was when a girl was trying to get into a gang and her job was to beat me up. She put me in a hold that I couldn't get out of so I let her complete her move, and then out of adrenaline I picked this girl up over my head(way lighter than I was, I've always been short, stalky and athletic) and it scared the (inappropriate term) out of her and everyone in class, and I placed her down. Nobody ever messed with me again. I never threw a punch, but I always defended myself. My teacher was proud of me that I didn't do anything to her after that. Point is that there are ways to defend yourself without getting in trouble. Find the loop holes. I agree that you should take a stand, but there is also a point when you don't want to get in trouble too. When you are the one throwing punches it isn't defense anymore unfortunately unless the other kid is fighting back. Sorry for your situation.



Lisa - Mom to her spunky little Scarlette

Youneed to talk to the

Susie's picture

Youneed to talk to the principal and set the record straight, if possible. Trust your son on this one.
As for fighting, I'm torn on the issue. I know my husband believes that if another kid is being physical with one of our sons, they should fight back (when they get to that age). I hate any kind of violence and would hope that my sons could find another solution. But the reality is that theywill need to fight back at some point in their lives.



Susie is a discussion leader in the east valley for arizonamoms.com. She has two sons, ages 6 and 2.

I can't imagine saying that

sdebralh's picture

I can't imagine saying that some time in their lives, they'll have to fight back. I never heard my mom say that.
I assume its like 2 fighting roosters. You just let them fight until someone comes up dead. I would never suggest that my son will have to fight one day in his life.
Instead, I hope my son learns other methods to try and talk his way out of fighting.
I asked another mom when was it right to fight? She asked me like why am I asking such a stupid question. She said NEVER. Thank goodness, there are moms out there that won't tolerate fighting back. Its not the answer, unless you want to get killed.
Defend your head and eyes if someone does start hitting, but get away if possible. 2 wrongs don't make it right.



One Happy Mom in Arizona.

I am so torn on that issue

divaballerina's picture

I am so torn on that issue of fightig also. I'm the middle of three girls and we NEVER got into fights with other kids..(sure as sister's we might have a few times). My husband thinks that if you need to defend yourself then it's important to toso. He says that boys are just different than girls and that if as a boy you don't stand up for yourself then you will be picked on from then on. If the boy getting picked on can use his negotiating skills to get out of it then more power to him. So I don't know, I agree with following the rules of the school and not getting into fights. BUT with that said I don't agree with telling my son to cover his eyes and head and run away. I wouldn't think (no offense) :) but I wouldn't think that would be to healthy for a young boy either. He would be known as the wuss boy. No kid wants that. I hate to say this but if you can't fight at achool and your mom (me) is making you follow the rules of no fighting at school and your still getting picked on and you have the ability to stick up for yourself in a fight and you have tried everything you can think of to resolve the situation and you haven't been able to, I am to the point where I would say it's ok to tell the kid to meet you after school off campus (hopefully the kid won't show up)! But that might put an end to it... You know you wouldn't say this if you son was on the smaller side. I guess my fear with this idea is what if the kid you tell to meet you at the park has a big brother and he shows up and his friends show up? YIKES!!! I still don't know what should be done about sticking up for yourself if your a middle school boy and someone is giving you a hard time...

Luckily, my son won't have to do that.. I've had the talk about school rules and how it is extremely important to follow the rules. he and the other boy are on ok terms now. They will have 1/2 a day of in school suspention but I agree with that b/c they both were in the wrong. I DID meet with the principal and he was able to make sure that my son's story was heard and well documented. Hopefully we won't have anymore problems but at this age, who knows...



Elizabeth is a discussion leader for arizonamoms she writes about everything from her needing mommy advice to crazy and silly stuff that happens. She lives in the West Valley with her husband and 3 children, Joshua 12, Brooke 2 and Mason 10 months

I asked one of the little

sdebralh's picture

I asked one of the little boys father yesterday when he came to pick up his son. The father is a Chemical Engineer with a Masters Degree, so I really respect his decision on this.
He just laughed at the question and thought I was silly for asking it. I explained to him one of the moms brought it up and people are agreeing that its ok to fight back. He said its never good to fight or fight back. Thank goodness. He said the same thing about the importance of the eyes, teeth, and even could result in brain damage or death.
We have to be taught that fighting is wrong. Go ask the teachers in the school, principal, or a preacher and see what they say. So, if you want your son to fight back until all his teeth are knocked out, I guess keep encouraging it, or, a knife is pulled, or in todays world, even a gun may be used.



One Happy Mom in Arizona.

I think there is a diffrence

mwheeler's picture

I think there is a diffrence between encouraging your child to fight.....and encouraging them to protect one self.
Like many of you we tell our son to get help, run and...yell!
There may be a time...when one of our children may have the target on them...and no one in sight to call out too...what then? We tell our son to protect himself...just as we do in other situations.
I agree picking a fight is wrong. However, how is protecting yourself wrong? If your son was in the dark alley and he couldn't get away......do you honestly think by him sitting on the ground covering his head trying to use his " words" he isn't going to get beat up? I think it is safe to say...yes, he would and the injuries would happen quicker because he isn't moving around.As wrong as we think fighting is .There is some child out there from a abusive home or broken home just full of anger.....and it could be your child or mine with the target on them.

I wouldn't ever encourage

divaballerina's picture

I wouldn't ever encourage him to fight back... I am not saying that at all.



Elizabeth is a discussion leader for arizonamoms she writes about everything from her needing mommy advice to crazy and silly stuff that happens. She lives in the West Valley with her husband and 3 children, Joshua 12, Brooke 2 and Mason 10 months

diva - I must of not made

mwheeler's picture

diva - I must of not made myself clear.....I wasn't really pointing my post towards you.In fact I was trying to relate to you a bit.
Encouraging your child to fight...I think we all can agree isn't good parenting....however, encouraging you child to protect himself is to me, good parenting.You can tell your child every single day not to fight.......but what do you tell your child when they are in a spot and can't get out.....protect yourself!

Hey mwheeler, I totally

divaballerina's picture

Hey mwheeler, I totally know... I was responding to the other mommy.. I know what your saying... My reply went under yours b/c you responded to that post also.... I totally agree with you.... :)



Elizabeth is a discussion leader for arizonamoms she writes about everything from her needing mommy advice to crazy and silly stuff that happens. She lives in the West Valley with her husband and 3 children, Joshua 12, Brooke 2 and Mason 10 months

No kid should have to take a

MiriamVS's picture

No kid should have to take a beating --- that is, he shouldn't be told NEVER fight back because that's just not fair. I tell my kids, 'don't START a fight, AVOID a fight whenever you can,, work to STOP the fight before it goes too far, but DEFEND yourself if you must.' That means, use enough force to stop the violence or threat against you, then withdraw from the situation and get help.

If you condition your kid to NEVER fight back, they will be passive and vulnerable to whatever thugs they come in contact with, and that attitude of 'I can't stand up for myself' will have destructive echoes that last a lifetime.

I agree with you 100%...I

Katy1999's picture

I agree with you 100%...I think it is absolutely ridiculous to tell a child never to fight back and just stand there like a namby-pamby......I have told my son to defend himself if the situation arises, and he will never be in trouble with me for doing so.
There is a big difference between instigating a fight and defending yourself.......and there are many sitations where I think it is appropriate to fight back. If some man approaches me in a parking lot and tries to force me into a car or grab me, or tries to grab my son....you can bet your (inappropriate term) he's in for the fight of his life. I'd rather fight to the death than allow that to happen.
I was attacked and sexually assaulted by the owner of a bar I worked at when I was 21....and I was so shocked and scared I hardly put up a fight, I just froze. I was a drug addict at the time and I remember thinking I don't want anyone to know about this, no one will beleive me...after it was over I just ran out the door and never came back. I am so ashamed of that, I will never give up that way again.

I have reviewed your prior

arubalime's picture

I have reviewed your prior lengthy posts and I think there are many layer of issues here. I hope you are following through on professional advice. Your son is at a pivotal age. Take care and I hope for the best.



Mom of teenage boys!

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