I was at a cabin with some girlfriends this weekend and we got to talking about circumcision. There were seven of us talking, and ironically, three had their sons circumcized, three did not and one gal had two sons (one was circumcized, one was not). Talk about 50/50! All of us were very non-judgemental about the topic, so it led to an interesting conversation. I was curious what the feedback would be here.
Hobbymommy, 38, is a discussion leader from Mesa. She is a happy stay-at-home mommy to a 3-year-old daughter and a 2-year-old son.
Circumcision is a real hot
Circumcision is a real hot topic in a lot of forums, I suspect this one will be no different.
My son is circumcised. I don't judge any moms regarding why they do or don't circumcise as it's a very personal choice.
It is better to be hated for what you are, than to be loved for what you are not.
My son is and honestly, I
My son is and honestly, I didn't really think twice about that decision. I know that some parents don't because of religious backgrounds. I know other parents don't because they have been told it kills part of sensation in that area. I think I chose to do it so I wouldn't have to worry about my son being able to clean it well. Either way, I don't disagree or agree one way or the other.
"It's not to late to become who you've always wanted to be..."
I circumcized - my husband
I circumcized - my husband and I did talk about pros and cons, tho. A lot of our decision had to do with my experience growing up with my brother. I don't recall my hubby pushing against it.
My parents opted not to do a circumcision on my brother at first. I didn't really ask why...I was a little girl then. Then when I was maybe 12 or 13, I remember circumcision being discussed. Apparently he had some repeat infections, so they did opted to have it done when he was in elementary school. It was very painful then. I was given the talk about being nice to my brother until he recouperates.
That stuck in my head and honestly, to me, it also looks better. Also, some girls do get freaked out when it doesn't look a certain way...but maybe that's changing with the younger generation.
I agree with all the other
I agree with all the other post. My son too was circumcized.My husband and I talked about as well and there was no question in my husbands mind...it was getting done.I have a friend who's exhusband wasn't and she would end up with infections.I too feel it is a personal decision and others shouldn't be judge !
I had my son circumcized. I
I had my son circumcized. I have no regrets.....I have never heard of anyone's child having complications from circumsicion.......some day some lucky lady will thank me. It is much cleaner - the foreskin traps infections and if the man does not clean himself properly there can be issues.
I can tell you firsthand that sex with an uncircumcized partner can lead to very annoying infections. As for all the men who protest and whine about this being a form of mutilation......pfffft.......it is from their own selfish idea that they are somehow missing out on an iota of sensation during sex. These are probably the same self centered men who don't like condoms "because you can't feel anything". Please!
If your anecdotal "evidence"
If your anecdotal "evidence" were true, then millions of women throughout Europe and half of American women would be perpetually suffering from these so called infections. It doesn't happen - it's not true. The majority of men in the world are not circumcized. This is an American (and a few other cultures) phenomenon. And, just last year, a Canadian infant died form complications from a hospital performed circumcision. It's rare, but it does happen, even if it hasn't happened to anyone you know.
This is a personal choice that no one should be criticizing. You don't hear pro intact moms on here, bashing the boys' asthetics or making wildly ignorant statements that intact men must be the same as "selfish" men who won't wear a condom! If you choose something different for your sons - FINE! But, stop attacking moms and their sons for their decision to leave their sons intact.
By the way, do you actually KNOW what "proper" hygiene is required for an intact boy? A shower...that's it...a shower (or a bath if you prefer). Whether or not my son is intact, he would bathe at the same regular frequency as my daughter!
Please, people, we're all moms here - being divisive is childish!
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
It seems that you are the
It seems that you are the one doing a lot of bashing of other people's comments and opinions, and putting down the mothers who have chosen to circumcise, because that was not what YOU chose for your sons.
I think you are trying to apply a subtle guilt trip to anyone who chose otheriwse by questioning their reasons for doing so and saying they don't have the right anecdotal evidence to back it up.
I'm sorry? Where did I put
I'm sorry? Where did I put down another mother for choosing to circumcize?
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
Most of your responses are
Most of your responses are quite condescending in nature....you go about it in a more subtle way, but it's pretty clear what you are trying to do......especially the one below that you started with the pompous throat clearing.
It's fine that you aren't a proponent of circumcision - entirely your perrogative, but don't say that you respect other people's choices when it's so obvious that you don't.
BTW, it occurs to me that you may feel like I have directly insulted your children, and that is why you are now stalking my posts and making snarky comments. That really wasn't my intention at all, so if that's the case I do apologize. It doesn't change my position on the subject,but I wanted to make it clear I wasn't taking a potshot at your sons.
Millions of women throughout
Millions of women throughout the world do suffer from infections because of lack of proper hygene in men who are not circumcised. In addition there is now new information regarding the spead of AIDS by uncircumcised men. In Africa they are now recommending that all males be circumsized to DRASTICALLY reduce the spread of AIDS. If AIDS can be spread so easily by uncircumsized males, how much more can minor bacterial infections be spread.
Sigh....no, no, no...EUROPE,
Sigh....no, no, no...EUROPE, not Africa - very different situations. If my sons were growing up in rural Africa, I would have made a different decision. Little girls are circumsized in Africa...should we do that too?
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
We circumcised my son mainly
We circumcised my son mainly because his Dad was (and that had worked for him), and we guessed there would be some comfort in looking like your dad does. I don't know if boys even notice these things? But in case it mattered. And we figured that was the time to do it, if it was ever going to be done.
I went in when he had the procedure done and he did not cry or seem otherwise bothered by what was going on then or the after care.
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
I was just wondering if your
I was just wondering if your insurance covered the circumcision or if you had to pay cash? If so how much did you pay?
I will be having my son at the end of the month but my insurance isnt going to cover it!
Having seen an uncircumcised
Having seen an uncircumcised penis, I went with circumcision. Appearances aside, the research is in favor of it for reasons of hygiene, transmission of sexually transmitted dieases, etc. And boys do notice, starting from the time they're little.
I did it with both my sons
I did it with both my sons and didn't think twice about it. I respect others' decisions but it just seemed like right thing for us.
Susie is a discussion leader in the east valley for arizonamoms.com. She has two sons, ages 7 and 3.
I was part of an online
I was part of an online expecting club during my pregnancy with my son, which then became an online playgroup after our kids were born. This was an extremely hot topic, discussed on numerous occasions. There were women who were against it who said that anyone choosing to do it was mutilating their baby; harsh! Anyhow, I did a lot of research, which I printed up and discussed with my husband. I could've went either way, but my husband was 100% set on having it done. I know this may sound lame to some people, but ultimately, I decided that since my husband had a penis and I didn't, he could have final say. And yes, our son was circumcised. I see both sides of the debate (although would never get "militant" about it); to each their own.
Jennifer, mom to one special little boy
Not lame to me. I went
Not lame to me. I went through a similar decision process.
Patricia is a discussion leader for arizonamoms.com. She and her husband live in Phoenix and are raising a 4-year-old son they adopted as an infant.
I'm surprised to be in the
I'm surprised to be in the minority with my thoughts here; we left our son intact because it didn't seem necessary or pressing for either social or religious reasons.
In the first decade, I've not heard of his suffering ridicule among friends or peers for our early decision. I'll be interested to see what others say.
***Throat
***Throat clearing***um...humm, um...the "research" that on poster referred to...The American Academy of Pediatrics does NOT recommend routine circumcision. The incidence of "increased urinary infection" apply ONLY to the first year of life and is completely offset by breastfeeding. There are many other reasons that I could cite, but I simply wanted to set the record straight. If you choose to do it, great - but don't cite erroneous information to back yourself up. It is a personal choice that no one need defend. Unfortunately, many who chose not to, find themselves defending their kids because of old wives tales. Unless you've read the meta studies yourself, realize that you might not have the correct information. The vast majority of European men are not circumcized and have NO greater increased risk of anything. Also, the American rates of the practice have now shifted to over 50% who choose not to, so you child will not be different because of it - whatever you choose!
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
I'm going to be brutally
I'm going to be brutally honest and some of you moms won't appreciate what I'm about to say but here it is: I could never have sexual contact with an uncircumcised man, it is (in my opinion) very unattractive. Before you jump down my throat, I will admit that perhaps it's because that's what I'm used to seeing but there it is the plain and simple truth(again only MY opinion). You can have your opinion,I'm NOT saying mine is right.
Absolutely, we understand
Absolutely, we understand your asthetic preference. Many people will also not have sex with someone outside their race or height requirement, for example. You may choose to teach your daughters that they should ascertain this information from any potential love interests before they fall in love. New moms who are still deciding whether or not to circumcize might what to consider that some women will hold this view. As the mom of two gorgeous, smart, funny, sweet, intact sons, I have no concerns whatsoever and fully expect that I will someday be a grandmother!
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
I like that you are honest.
I like that you are honest.
Think about this..... man WILL NOT date woman, if they DO NOT have silcon breasts.
Really?
It this what picking a partner has come too....who's had the best cosmetic adjustments?
You have your criteria....i just dont think it would feel real nice if men did that to us....you dont hear much about men not dating because his woman does not look like everyone else "below the belt", most appreciate what we have and would never ask us to cut it to there liking.
Most circumcisions are for cosmetics and cosmetics alone.
I hear you!
I hear you!
I saw one uncircumcised
I saw one uncircumcised penis when it was erect and it didn't look any different.
Originally that was why we
Originally that was why we weren't going to circumcise - I did read the meta-analysis of the studies pro and con. Ultimately the reason we did it was a very personal reason - see my answer below.
Krista, Mom of Aidan 2/9/05 BW Mom!
I had this conversation with
I had this conversation with my sister when my nephew was born. Unfortunately, we had it too late and the procedure had already been done. I was surprised she let it happen without even discussing it. It's unnecessary and is considered mutilation by some. We won't even clip our dogs' ears. Why would we do this to our sons?
Stacy Sullivan has a single-mom sister who's constantly asking for advice as she raises a son and daughter. He's a senior editor for product development at The Republic/azcentral.com who oversees arizonamoms.com, pets.azcentral.com and deals.azcentral.com
I'm not sure why your
I'm not sure why your opinion should have had any bearing on a decision that should have been made by your sister and the boy's father.......it wasn't your business...it seems a little overbearing on your part, but I'm not suprised.
You're right. It should've
You're right. It should've been up to my sis and the boy's dad. Unfortunately, the boy's dad disappeared as soon as my sis got pregnant. So, she's a single mom who's asked my advice about a lot of things dealing with raising a boy. Potty training, puberty, sports, most everything. That's why it was a surprise she didn't ask me about this.
Stacy Sullivan has a single-mom sister who's constantly asking for advice as she raises a son and daughter. He's a senior editor for product development at The Republic/azcentral.com who oversees arizonamoms.com, pets.azcentral.com and deals.azcentral.com
My son was born early and
My son was born early and was not given the option for a circumcision. He is now 13 and has always known the option was available to him. I dont believe it was my decison and I'm thankful I was not given the option when he was an infant(I would have elected for it, I thought it was necessary and very common). I now dont believe we should cut 12" of nerves from our children. My son does not want this procedure done. He knows many boys have it done and they appear diffrent pysically. He would have felt violated if I forced him to get it done, he has ownership of his body and knows it. It is not our body, its theirs and their decision soley.
Well, if he had decided he
Well, if he had decided he wanted to get it done, then it would be much more painful and memorable than if he had done it when he was a baby. I don't know anyone who recalls being circumcised as an infant.....but those who end up having it done when they are older definitely do.
my son is and we chose to
my son is and we chose to because of health reasons. my middle daughter has kidney reflux and 1 in 3 siblings will also have it so we decided to not risk it. it was so horrible and heart breaking to see him go through but in the long run, we are glad we did it.
I've heard some adults have
I've heard some adults have nightmares about traumatic events as infants, including surgeries...but I don't know if I believe it.
The only thing I remember from early childhood is a vague memory of the house in California. Otherwise, I really don't have memories before Kindergarten.
We did our son. It's a matter of opinion. But appearance, sadly, does matter. We were also concerned about the possibility of infection.
SEEM'S I PICKED A GOOD ONE
SEEM'S I PICKED A GOOD ONE TO BECOME A NEW MEMEBER ON. BUT AS I SEE IT, EITHER WAY DOESNT REALLY MATTER AS LONG AS YOU KEEP THE CHILD CLEAN ( ALL BODY PARTS INCLUDED ) THEN THERE WILL BE NO PROBLEMS. I CIRCUMCISED MY OWN SON, BUT MY HUSBAND AND I DID HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS ON THE MATTER, AND LONG WITH SOME OTHER FAMILY INFLUENCES. BUT IN THE END HE WAS CIRCUMCISED AND ALL IS WELL. ITS REALLY NOT AS BIG OF AN ISSUE AS PEOPLE MAKE IT OUT TO BE.
1. Please see
1. Please see http://www.nocirc.org
National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers.
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2. For those parents (or soon to be), this is good advice:
Ask to watch (live) a circumcision being performed. If this is not possible, ask for a DVD showing one being performed. I have yet to find parents who've gone through this process and decided circumcision was a good idea for their infant son.
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3. Search Google for "circumstraint" and follow a couple of the links. This is the "device" (made in Seattle, Washington) used by nearly all U.S. hospitals to restrain the infant male while part of his penis is cut off. A Circumstraint is essentially the size and shape of the average kitchen cutting board. The infant is strapped to the board using Velcro restraints on his arms and legs. This is the very same way that a prisoner is held down while he/she is put to death via lethal injection.
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4. Foreskin cut off of a penis is NOT treated as medical waste and discarded. It is composed almost entirely of epithelial cells (ones that grow/replicate really well) and this tissue is very valuable to the cosmetics industry. Nearly all U.S. hospitals sell infant foreskins to third parties who then sell the tissue to the cosmetics industry.
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5. The American Academy of Pediatricians OPPOSES circumcision. See http://www.aap/org for more information
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6. Circumcision is a consistent money maker for doctors and hospitals/clinics. Its performance is NOT based on scientific efficacy. The whole "penile cancer will kill all the world's males" story has been completely debunked (but is still propagated by those who are profiting from it).
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7. A circumcised penis is highly irritating to females during sexual intercourse. To understand how the foreskin serves to protect the vaginal walls, see the excellent book The Joy Of Uncircumcising! (item 12. below).
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8. Since the mid-1990s, there has been a trend of minors suing parents for having them circumcised. Sadly, there are attorneys who specialize in this type of litigation. It has been very successful, however. Typical restitution is the cost of rebuilding an artificial foreskin using skin from elsewhere on the body. Cost is $8,000-$10,000 and about one year of multiple medical operations.
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9. The United Nations has classified circumcision as mutilation.
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10. If women/mothers think circumcision is a good idea, it has been suggested that the women/mothers have their vagina's labia majora removed. Anatomically, this is the same as having the penis's foreskin removed. Furthermore, to understand how the glans penis (head) feels without its foreskin, women/mothers can try having their underwear rub against their clitoris all day and all night long.
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11. There is something distinctly American in the idea that the body (penis, specifically) of a newborn baby male infant is somehow defective and that this "defect" (read foreskin) must be removed in order to make a more perfect and healthy male.
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12. Consider reading The Joy Of Uncircumcising!: Exploring Circumcision: History, Myths, Psychology, Restoration, Sexual Pleasure and Human Rights (Paperback) by Jim Bigelow (Author)
See http://www.amazon.com/Joy-Uncircumcising-Circumcision-Psychology-Restora...
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13. The U.S. is one of the few countries within which circumcision is done much anymore. If removing penis foreskin was such a life saving procedure, only Americans would be alive and for better or worse, that is certainly not the case - Americans comprise a mere 1/24th of the world's population.
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14. Circumcision in the U.S. started in the 1930s and is a contrivance of doctors. It is largely based on the premise that the lack of a foreskin would prevent males from masturbating. This is, for better or worse, completely false. Males will and do masturbate with or without their foreskin and they do so all of their lives. Married or not, straight, gay, bi-sexual or otherwise. Though with a foreskin, masturbation (and intercourse) feel much more pleasurable.
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15. Take a look at penises with and without foreskins and you'll see a tremendous difference. Those intact (with foreskin) have smoother, pinker, moister, and far more sensitive shafts and heads. Those penises without foreskins are dry, chaffed, a dull pink/purple in color and have had much of their sensitivity lost over the years.
See http://www.erectionphotos.com/visitorsPix/visitorsGallery.htm
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16. In recent years, data has been gathered concerning the nervous systems and brains of male infants while their penis's foreskin is being cut off. The data show that high levels of cortisol (pain relievers) are released by the body and flood the blood stream. Further, the infant's body enters a period of shock. This data sets the lie to the notion that "circumcision isn't painful."
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17. Just because Dad or brothers or cousins or whomever is circumcised is not a legitimate reason to circumcise someone else. That is like saying: If the father beat the mother, the son has every right to beat his wife. Bad thinking.
I hope this information helps. Love your sons, love your daughters, love each other. Please don't force anyone to undergo an unnecessary medical procedure against their own free will. Peace.
In the interest of
In the interest of presenting balanced information.....below is a link to a site with alternate views on the subject:
http://www.circinfo.net/index.html
Peace
just thought id share what
just thought id share what ive found out.
1.the circumstraint is for the childs protection. thee ae diffferent style devices that are use in medical situations to restrain a child so that medical procedures can be done without movemnt from the child that could cause injury. i think its a littel dramatic to compare it to a prisoner
2.read my post about my first experience witha circumcision assist. that was in the late 80's doctors now use a numbing agent prior to the procedure
3.i have worked in a hospital since 1988. i have never, i repeat, never seen anyone collecting foreskins to sell. it is against the law and the parents have to give permission for anything that is done to the baby. the only time i have ever seen any body parts leave the hospital in other than normal disposal procedures is when a hippie mom asked to take her placenta home with her to plant under a rose bush. and even that was a hassle, had to get the ethics committee involved
4.if the american association of pediatrics opposes it then why is it still being done... legally
5. doctors hate to do circumscions at least the hundreds i have worked with. that means coming in to the hospital a couple more times, therefore losing money in the office. insurances pay a set amount for a birth and unless there are complicatons no more that the acontracted amount is paid. and... hospitals and doctors all agree to a contract on the precetage that the insurances pay for example if a hospital bills $100 for something the insurances contract says they agree to pay 35% of tha and that is all the hospital and doctor gets. its likemonopoly money. if it is a slef pay it is still a set amount. circumcision doesnt een start to cover the cost. the doctor has to carry amalpractice insurance of a minimum million dollars on each kid they deliver until thekid turns 20 "just in case something happens. inour town all of the doctors doing deliveries stopped becasue they couldnt afford the 85,000 a year plus 20 yr trailer malpractice insurance premiums that si required, therefore everyone has to drive between 60 and90 miles to the next town that has ob drs.
6.i shaed my personl experienc in the previous post. again if something is irritating the vaginal walls maybe it is some funk that is caught up in the foreskin. it is a known fact that uncircumcised men have a higher incidence of STDS. that is because bacteria and viruses can hide in the many folds in the skin and breed. they like warm moist and dark and guess what? that is what foreskin is
7. how ridiculous is that. why would anyone want to put themsleves through a reconstruction. that would be painful and expensive. my son told me he was glad i did it and he was glad his didnt look like the others. i wonder what a survey of husbands and significant others wouldturn out like
8.if you want to be credible... facts please. the united nations is against FEMALE circumcison. iif it wa against male, then one would tend to think that the united nations is gearing up for another holocauset... what a scary thought isnt it?
9.actually i would consider a reduction of my labia minoraif i could afford it and if it didnt hurt, just being honest here. no reason why i would want to do tha majora. and .. maybe im a minority on this but i dont wear underwear unless i absolutely have to and i really enjoy the sensation of my female parts rubbing on myj eans. kinda like my own little secret. no one knows why the smile on my face
10.hell yea. my boys have pretty penises and i know they have less of a chance of gettingfunk in the folds that could possibly turn into an infection
11.and you dont have reports of mortality rates in third wolrd countries cause they cant even afford someone to keep track
12. i dont know about that masturbation thing can you send me some documentation of that.
13.i just did a quick check of the penis i have available to me. idont know where you have been looking but this i found
my hubbys penis is very soft, smooth and pink. o moist there because he doesnt like diaper rash down there, his si definatley very sensitive and it si not dry or chaffed, if it was i would certainly question where its been. i jsut asked to see it and i touched it and asked how the senisitivity was and he didnt even ahve to tell me ( he thinks im crazy)
14. being born is painful and shockful. should birth be eliminated because of the pain?
15i respect yor convictions , i am just so happy i dont have to make that decision anymore cause my eggs are too old. and i dont interfere with my boys and their wives becasue its their turn to make decisions andmistakes. i have two grandsons and they are both circumcised
As a Labor and delivery
As a Labor and delivery nurse, I have seen and assisted with circumcisions. I do everything I can to make sure to treat the pain for the child, including lining the board with a warm blanket, covering with warm blankets, and providing a sucrose solution for the baby to release endorphins. These are many of the reasons why I originally opted not to circumcise. I felt very strongly about all the points you made and my husband had no strong feelings one way or the other.
What changed my mind? Seeing my grandfather die of uro-sepsis when he was no longer able to clean himself as frequently and as properly as he should. Sad to say it, but his eyesight was so poor that he could no longer maintain his standards of cleanliness. Do I think all people should do it? Absolutely not. Would I do it again? I hope not. It was an emotional decision and I try not to make emotional decisions about such life-changing things. Doi judge anyone who has it done? No. I just hope everyone who has it done has done their own thinking as I did.
I also have worked in labor and delivery (in one way or another) since 1993. We do NOT sell any body parts, everything is disposed of as medical waste. You cannot sell parts to earn money without consent - see the stem-cell research arguments. Some hospitals used to ask women for their placentas because the vein was used for coronary bypass surgeries. They had to sign a release form. This is the US - we have to have permission to do whatever we do with patients bodies.
Krista, Mom of Aidan 2/9/05 BW Mom!
Okay, I'm done here. I
Okay, I'm done here. I wasn't at all condescending. I suppose on-line it's hard to tell, but I was just attempting to convey a joking akwardness with the written throat clearing...a way to express "I hate to disagree with the research comment". I suppose that "lightheartedness" is too difficult to convey in this manner. LOL....
Your appology is appreciated, but I never for one second took any of your comments personally. I'm just not that thin skinned.
Anyone can see that I responded to specific issues regarding circumcision in an effort to refute the old wive's tales that still unfortunately persist. I only encourage mom's who might be researching their options to actually read the research, rather than to reply upon subjective opinions about superficial cosmetic considerations - after all this is surgery.
I am not being condescending to state that in science, anecdotal evidence is simply not evidence. The fact is that such a decision as circumcision should be weighed carefully and thoroughly. I'm so sorry if you perceive a discussion of these often overlooked considerations, as "condescending".
I have not made wildly derogatory assumptions about the men who speak out against the procedure.
Best wished to you and your family.
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
Yeah, your'e right....no
Yeah, your'e right....no condescention there, especially in your last post.......sometimes it isn't what you say, so much as how you say it................. I doubt your sincerity in wishing me well.........if you were really as thick-skinned as you claim to be then I doubt you would have dug up an old thread of mine to make a very rude comment at the end.....but I digress.
I didn't dig it up - I
I didn't dig it up - I remembered it because it was so offensive! LOL...I cannot possibly be responsible for what you infer. Anyone can see that the words are straightforward, above the board, legitimate rebutal of debatable aspects of a controversial topic. I have not made any ignorant, derogatory statements.
And, no matter how half empty you see the glass, I DO sincerely wish you and your family well. I don't like to see any family struggling with so much turmoil. I hold absolutely no ill will toward you! BEST wishes! REALLY!!!!!
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
I thought you were done
I thought you were done here........not really a person of your word, huh?
Optimist - I agree with you
Optimist -
I agree with you - Just ignore Katy1999. She obviously has an axe to grind. Her comments are very judgemental. I did circumsize my three boys, but I completely see the other side of things.
Ann
both my sons are
both my sons are circumcised. its done and over with they are 29 and 17. i am a woman first then a nurse. as a woman i can tell you that personally uncircumcised penises give me the willies. they look like sea cucumbers just waiting to spurt. i dont knwo that is just my opinions. yes i have experienced both and i can tell you without a doubt that an uncircumcised one does not irritate the vagina. never had that happen to me. i think that if there is irritation it is something else going on not what is on the tip of the penis. . on the ohter hand i saw my first circumcision during my first year as a nurse. i worked in the ER but one of the doctors grabbed me because he needed help and the maternal unit was short staffed. i missed my lunch for this and that was a good thing. when i had my boys done they just took the baby away and then he came back witha littel vaseline over the tip. this time the baby was strapped down onto a hard cold plastic thing. and it was painful you could seeit in the babys eyes and jsut plain brutal. i came home and appologized to my boys over and over again. my oldest told me" thats ok mom, im gald you did it i dont even remember and ive seen the other kind and im glad you did it" the youngest was still too little to understand. so that is my point. i have always wondered how that little baby felt and at the time i was so angry that it was being done to him but then again i look at my boys and myhusband andi am releived that none will ever think their package is gross.
i guess id ont have to explain about the hygiene part of it becaus everyone seems to have a good grasp.
Apparently not everyone has
Apparently not everyone has a good grasp of the "hygiene" issue. If intact men don't bathe regularly, they MAY have a problem. But, they'd also run the risk is scabes too. Intact boys and men need only take a shower and wash with soap, the same thing that I assume we would all teach our daughters to do.
Calling little boys' "packages"..."gross" if they are intact, doesn't convince anyone of your point. Stating that you don't personally like the appearance would be more adult and appropriate.
The reality is that people find the familiar appealing. You like, what you get used to. Now, some women may be used to an intact male, and still have negative opinions based upon the prejudices of the society in which they live, but generally, women accustomed to seeing intact males, find cut males to be unattractive. I hope that new comers to this board take note that none of the posts against circumcision have, thus far, resorted to attacking the "look" in playground terminology.
"When reason and logic fail, the desperate turn to fear and emotion"
I know that many women sincerely search, far and wide, for information when trying to decide whether or not to circumcize. I hope that they can obtain that information in a neutral, fact based discussion. It's unfortunate that they must still weed through the peer pressure to conform or be "gross". I hope only to inspire these moms to look to the medical community for those facts. It was an agonizing decision for me and I wondered afterward, if I'd done the right thing. Now, years later, I am proud that I did my research and can be certain that I did the right thing for MY sons. I know that for everyone it is different. My sons come from a European background and will continue to spend considerable time there, so for them, their "norm" is different than it might be for others. It is a PERSONAL decision, hardly different than what color you decide to paint your living room. But, likewise, I think that it would be rude for me to say that another mom's family room color is "gross" as the famous quote goes..."Matters of taste can not be disputed". But, manners are a subjective thing.
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
as I said.... " just my
as I said.... " just my personal opinion". i respect your opinion and your decision. i was just sharing what I think. and... you can get scabies in any part of the body from being unclean along with a host of other problems. i guess no matter what you decide, itis important to teach hygeine to all kids boys and girls, uncircumcised or not. I'm sorry if i offeneded you
When my son was born, we
When my son was born, we made the decision not to circumsize him, nor would I do so for any future sons I might have. Excepting religious or cultural reasons, I fail to see the point. As far as cleanliness, he has more issues with cleaning his ears than he does his penis...
My son is circumcised for
My son is circumcised for one reason. I was originally electing to not have him circumcised because it was an unnecessary surgery and risk for a 2 day old to have. The reason that we finally did it was because of my former experince in working with the elderly. I had the experience of knowing many 70-80 year old men having to get circumcised because of recurrent urinary tract infections. My grandfather died from uro-sepsis and I was with him at the end. It was not pretty. I thought that an 80 year old man would certainly remember a circumcision, whereas the memories a 2 day old would have about it would have many, many opportunities to be replaced with good and pain-free memories.
Still feeling unsure about wanting to inflict pain, we had EMLA cream, local lidocaine injections, and Sweet-ease (a sucrose solution that stimulates the baby to produce endorphins - a natural pain killer). The pediatrician said my son did not whimper, cry, grimace, or anything.
If I had another son, would I do it again? I don't know. The debate would begin again. I hope I am not faced with that decision again.
Krista, Mom of Aidan 2/9/05 BW Mom!
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"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
My husband, a physician, and
My husband, a physician, and I decided not to circumcise our son. He is almost two and he's never had any problems as a result of being intact. In general, it requires no additional care than I would assume a circumcised boy requires.
We asked several pediatricians about this issue prior to his birth. All said that circumcision is basically a cosmetic procedure and the decision is generally made according to parents' cultural/religious beliefs and aesthetic preferences. They agreed that there were some health issues to consider, as well, but that the risks and benefits of the procedure did not generally outweigh the risks and benefits of not having the procedure.
Knowing that there was not a clear medical incentive to perform a circumcision, and that it is generally an aesthetic/cultural decision made it easy for us to rule out circumcision. We simply didn't see the need to have a cosmetic procedure carried out on our newborn son.
As the comments regarding women not liking the look of an intact male's anatomy, I have no worries - there are obviously plenty of women in this world who either don't care or even prefer the look of an intact male.
Finally, as to the comments regarding the need to have a circumcision performed at 80, there are plenty of procedures that become necessary after a certain age that I wouldn't preemptively perform on young children simply so that they won't be inconvenienced with it when they turn 80.
Ladies. I couldnt help but
Ladies. I couldnt help but to comment on this subject as all of you seem to be ill informed on the subject. I am a 32 year old male who was not circumsized at birth. Through out my life i suffered no ridcule however some women did not find it attractive. Those issues aside, i chose to get the procedure done when i was 25. I got frequent yeast infections and I bathed and still do twice perday. I am very active in bodybuilding and do manual labor which creates heat and moisture in that area which is all it takes for an infection. My wife on the other had was also experiencing much more infections than before we met. Uncircumsized men who are married actually raise the risk of cervical cancer for their partners. Not having it done actually does increase infections.
I have had no loss of felling in that area from having it done. In fact its more intense than before because the frenulum is not covered with skin!
if you have any questions feel free to email me at pinkteddy303@hotmail.com