When someone asks your opinion...do you answer honestly or do you tell them what you think they want to hear?
Yesterday a friend asked me what i thought of her new home and the area in which they bought the home and i responded without hesitation "your home is beautiful and the neighborhood is nice." I felt like i was on auto pilot and the words just spilled out of my mouth without any hesitation. Truth is...the house is nice, but the neighborhood is not a place i would chose to live for many reasons.
Basically...i lied. But this got me thinking. How many times in a day (week or month) do i lie like this? Do these count as lies? Can i call these white lies? Does calling them white lies make it better because i am doing it so that i won't hurt anyones feelings? What would the individual think if i would have said ... the house is nice, but i'm not so sure about the neighborhood. Even if it were a close relative....i don't think my response would have been any different.
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
~ Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
That is a toughie that we
That is a toughie that we all struggle with. Honesty is so important, but so is being kind. We don't always have to be so brutally honest that we hurt someone. I used to be very active in theatre before I had kids. My friends and I used to joke that if you didn't like the show, you could always tell your friend, "You really looked like you were having fun up there!" My point is, it's nice to find something to say that isn't a lie, but also doesn't hurt anyone. But it is a fine line. In your situation, I probably would have done the same thing, but maybe you could also have just mentioned something you do like about the neighborhood, with out saying you "like it." Oh, what a tangled web we weave.... LOL
Hobbymommy, 38, is a discussion leader from Mesa. She is a happy stay-at-home mommy to a 3-year-old daughter and a 2-year-old son.
White lies are like that
White lies are like that famous "gray area" we always hear about. Truthfully, you should have just stopped with, "your house is great and it's perfect for your family." That way it might not have been the "truth" but it was an honest answer. People have different tastes so while the neighborhood wasn't ideal to you and your family, it probably fit thier needs. The house is "great" is a lot less overzealous than "beautiful" and she would have liked that answer just as well.
It's hard not to white lie because "everyone does it." In society it's considered acceptable to "white lie" rather than speak your mind and give an honest answer and hurt someone's feelings. I will admit, I have white lied on a few occasions (mostly to my children) to get them to do something, act a way I want them to, or ease the pain of something else. For instance, we are about the tell my husband's kids a white lie about our dog that we had. Truthfully, I found our puppy a loving, wonderful, new home with a family that can devote time to him because we couldn't...the white lie will be we found him a new home because he was causing my allergies to act horrendously and I was getting sick. Either way it's not right and we both feel horrible, but it saves a little less pain in their hearts. (Oh and I'm sure I'm going to be hated on for what I'm doing and we chose to do lol.)
"It's not to late to become who you've always wanted to be..."
In your specific case, what
In your specific case, what were you supposed to say, "Your house is nice, but your neighborhood is a death trap! Get out now while you still can!!"
She wasn't really asking your opinion, she was really asking, "I just spent more money than I'll earn in years and put myself in debt for the next 30 years. Please confirm for me that it's going to be OK." In which case your answer was appropriate because you have no information to the contrary.
In general, I think we need to figure out what the real question being asked is: for example, if your friend comes out of a dressing room wearing a very sexy dress, and asks your opinion, your answer would vary a lot if you knew if your friend was planning on wearing this out for an evening on the town or to church. And in either case, you may think the dress is ugly, but decide it does suit your friend and just make a mental note never to borrow it.
I agree...I always heard
I agree...I always heard that you are being helpful with your comments or opinions, if the person can do someting about the situation, but if they can't, keep your comments to yourself. For example, if a friend has food in her teeth, tell her because she can fix that. If she has a stain on her blouse, don't say a word, because she can't do anything about it at the moment.
We must also remember that the "truth" is only the 'truth as we see it".
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
White lies are okay if they
White lies are okay if they protect other's feelings. In a circumstance like this - she already bought the home. If she asked prior to buying - they it would be fine to remind her that location, location, location is the most critical recommendation for real estate.
Mom of teenage boys!
I lie is a lie, no half
I lie is a lie, no half truths.. I believe in "tell it like it is".. I have said to friends and people, "do you want me to tell you what YOU want to hear, or do you want my truthful opinion?"
You should hope that if you tell someone else the truth about how you answered your friends question, that it doesnt came back to haunt you.. If it were me, and I found out that you lied about, I wouldn't trust what you say anymore, because I would now find you to be two-faced. That being said, now when I read your responses to ppl's post that they have on hear, I am relucatant to believe what your response is, because you just admitted that if you would do this face to face to a actual friend that I think you care about, you most likely would be more willing to lie on this forum because no one really knows you. And that would go for the other ladies that think it's ok to lie.
" just my Opinion" LOL
But what about the "lies"
But what about the "lies" that protect people's feelings, like some other moms have brought up here. Or the lying by omission situation, like when your friend has a stain on her blouse that she can't do anything about, so you don't tell her. I find it hard to believe that you can be completely black and white about lying -- that there is no such thing as a "white lie." How do you avoid hurting people's feelings?
DesertMom
http://ppdsurvivor.blogspot.com
I think keeping your mouth
I think keeping your mouth shut in certain circumstances isn't like outright lying......and I also think there are people who use "honesty" as an excuse for being cruel...........there are times when people do need to hear the truth, even when it hurts..........but there are also times when they don't need to be clobbered over the head with it.
My husband blurts out harsh things all the time, and he feels justified because he's being honest....but sometimes I think he crosses the line and is overly critical for no good reason.
Are you serious? I have no
Are you serious? I have no problems with people who like to "tell it like it is"; heck, my husband is that way. But saying that telling a white lie is going to come back to haunt you, that your friends will think you're two-faced and can't trust you? Maybe my "style" of friendship is different, but if I were to find out my best friend lied to me and told me my butt looked fine in my new jeans, when really she thought it looked huge, I'm not going to think badly of her. I'm not saying "Oh, lying is great; everyone should tell white lies!"; just saying that I'm not going to think less of a friend who tries to protect my feelings.
As far as anything else the OP posts on this board, I'm not worried about her responses in various threads being false. I've been a member of several online forums for years, and my experience has been that when you're on a board full of people you don't really know (if you know them at all) and you have some anonymity, you're more likely to actually speak your mind.
JMHO.
Jennifer, mom to one special little boy
Wow and Ouch. I guess i'm a
Wow and Ouch. I guess i'm a liar for trying not to hurt someones feeling. Is this where i am supposed to thank you for being honest with me. Then Thank you!!!
I actually appreciate those who are honest with me. But for the record....I have not lied to anyone with my responses and actually believe the individuals who post here want an honest answer. Maybe the fact that there is a bit of anonymity, makes it easier to ask those hard questions and also reply to those hard questions honestly.
Thank you again for taking the time to respond and that is the actual heart felt truth. ;0) I asked for it and you gave it to me - thats what i love about this forum.
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
~ Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
You said she asked you about
You said she asked you about the area too. So now as a good friend, go back and tell her you lied and why and what your honest answer is, she probably won't appreciate you lying about it. You probably should have just told her that you like her house and not even commented at all about the area..And if she would have asked you again what you think about the area, you should have told her the honest truth. The fact is, you can say anything as tactful and nice and loving as you can, but if the person doesn't like your answer, then it's their problem not yours and ppl shouldnt ask an opinion if they don't want to her an honest truthful answer from someone, it doesn't mean she has to agree with you.
You can and should be able to "agree to disagree".
And as far as ppl on this forum. If you read back on some of thier opinions and stuff, I have found a few that are wishy washy and say one thing on one post and another thing on another post, just to make the person "feel good".
I would think that if post something that they want "honesty". Again, you don't have to agree, but sometimes you might look at something a little different, I know that sometimes I may have felt a certain way about stuff, but I'm certainly open to hear what others have to say. Alot of times it only confirms why I believe what I do, because I do have certain morals, values, and principles and standards I live by and I see and hear alot of ppl just trying to please others and they really have no stance on anything.
By the way, our kids watch everything we do and say and so how do you define a "little white lie" to them.. One day their little white lie might mean the difference between something tragic or horrible outcome that could have been prevented, but they didn't tell you cause they didn't want to stress you or hurt your feelings. Think about it, We are all examples to our kids, and how do we justify lying.. I don't justify it, and so I tell me kids not to and I dotry my very best not to lie, but I'm not perfect, and when my kids have questioned me on it, I have told them I was wrong to do that. I certainly don't try to justify a lie whether it was little or not. I have even gone back to correct it to show my kids that I am not above reproach and that I can admit when i was wrong.
And I have seen friendships and families feud over a little white lie. So it can come back to haunt you.. I'm sure alot of you, if you would think about it and admit it, have seen distruction over what someone called "a little white lie".
My mother and father once told my sisters and brothers and I that we will never be able to say we lied to them. And they never had, they lead by a great example to us, and now that they are in heaven, when we siblings get together it's very honoring to talk about our parents to our kids and how we hope to be a good example like our parents were to us. I don't ever remember them lying to us or to anyone else. I'm sure they have, they werent perfect, but they were parents of integrity, morals, values, principles and standards and they lived fully.
On the other hand, my husband says alot "oh, ya know my mom/dad just say that so that my sister doesnt have her feelings hurt". My older daughter has even pickup that grandma doesnt tell the truth all the time, cause she's a ppl pleaser. And my daughter just thinks that awful, so she doesnt ask grandma her opinion cause she doesnt feel she questions whether grandma is being honest or just being nice to not hurt her feelings. Pretty sad!
" just my Opinion" LOL
Thanks again and after
Thanks again and after reading more of your post...i think my little white lie in this situation, well ,i'll just let it go. If that makes me a bad person...then so be it.
Maybe next time i will take a little more time to think about my response before i open my mouth. But I am certainly not out to hurt my friends feelings. And in this case, would my opinion on what i think of the neighborhood have changed anything for her? No!
Besides, the neighborhood is full of homeowners, so i guess she's not the only one who liked the neighbor. Since my individual choice is different, that doesn't make hers choice wrong.
So like i said....next time...instead of being on mouth auto pilot...i will put more thought in to what i say.
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
~ Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
differentdrum - But...on
differentdrum - But...on one post about education, I told you that you continually use the "word" alot, when in fact it is not a word. I informed you that the correct usage was "a lot" (just like "a little"). However, you acted offended and attacked me personally - YET, I WAS JUST BEING HONEST! Should I have LIED by omission, to spare your feelings?
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
Had I asked your opinion on
Had I asked your opinion on my spelling? I don't believe I did.
As far as lying goes, obviously you think it's ok to lie, and your being picky, about what? I don't know. You just can't justify lying.
Read a couple of post down, what I said there refers to you also.
"Birds of feather flock together"
You enjoy the "wide road" your on too!
Wide is the road that leads to destruction! It's to bad others are following your lead..
" just my Opinion" LOL
For the most part, I am a
For the most part, I am a fairly blunt person, and I beleive that honesty is the best policy.....but sometimes it depends on the question.....there are times when people don't need to her EVERYTHING that is on your mind, especially in a situation where it's not constructive or doesn't do any good.....your freind already bought the house, so if you tell her now you think the neighborhood is (inappropriate term), it's not going to do her any good and it's just going to alienate her and make her feel bad.
If you are with someone and they are trying on clothes, and they ask your opinion you should give it (tactfully) because they are making a decision right then and can use your input.
I agree that in a forum like this, people are more likely to give a forthright opinion because there is a certain amount of anonymity.
A couple summers ago my BF
A couple summers ago my BF amd I were shopping I found this summer dress I just had to have.I showed her and she said " Only you could wear a dress like that " she went even further and said " In fact that dress is so ugly I am going to buy it for you" !
Two days later at the grocery store a lady came up to me and said " I love that dress, where did you get it" ?
We all view things diffrent......
My BF is very blunt....however she can be blunt in away it doesn't destroy relationships.....although I must admit her mouth has gotten her in a jam from time to time with strangers.
I think being honset is the best for all.....and for the most part I live by that.....To me being honest goes further then opening your mouth........you understand the person you are dealing with and tell them the truth in a way you know they will get it! Just like my BF did.....I laughed at her because in my eyes that dress wasn't ugly......and because she was honest I got a free dress.
differentdrum - So, you're
differentdrum - So, you're saying that if I come over to your house and I think that the paint color and decor of your living room is tacky and too urban, you wouldn't ever trust me again if I said, "wow - it sure looks like you've put a lot of work into this room! Bravo! I don't know how you do it!", but you later found out that I didn't actually like it? That's nuts! I can easly find SOMETHING nice to say, without telling a lie, per se. Granted, I didn't offer my COMPLETE opinion, but it wasn't a lie.
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
differentdrum - i was
differentdrum - i was reading thru my post "to tip or not to tip" and noticed a response you left.....
"When I tip at resturants, I always leave cash because when you put the tip on your credit or debt card, they have to claim it on their taxes, and it's bad enough that they don't make very much to start with."
So, it's ok for food servers to lie by not claiming money earned as income (thats what tips are for food servers) to the IRS. Now that seems to be a lie to me that could get someone in serious trouble. Penalties from the US government and possible jail time.
I'm assuming your intentions are good when you do this. But this could get someone is serious trouble. I hope the food servers are claiming their tips as income and being honest.
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
~ Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
Yes, I leave them cash, It's
Yes, I leave them cash, It's up to them to claim it or not, If they want to blame others, that's their problem not mine, I'm not twisting thier arm to "not claim" earned income.. And I do feel it is bad that they don't make much, but they chose the job they have. It's just like someone who teaches piano or voice lessons out of there home. Should they claim it? Yes they should. Do they? I don't know, they have to live with themselves when they do their taxes, and chose to lie and not claim it. I pay someone to teach my kid piano, whether she claims it or not isn't my problem.
Are you trying to blame others for things that you don't do and should.. Shame shame on you!!
I have strong morals, values and principles I live by, it's not my fault you are trying to not deal with what your conscience is telling you what is truely right and wrong.
Obviously I hit a sore spot with you and you need to try and put blame on me..
A lie is a lie, no half truths. You've heard the saying "birds of a feather flock together" So maybe that they kind of friends you keep, the ones that tell little white lies to you and you do the same.. Enjoy that wide road your on!!
" just my Opinion" LOL
interesting twist. I am
interesting twist.
I am not trying to justify what i said. I already said i am not sure why i said it, but i did and thats that.
I will learn and grow from my experiences and will listen to the constructive criticism i received from many of the posters. No one on this earth is perfect and WE ALL make mistakes. I've learned even more than i could have expected from this post and i am truly glad i put it out there.
The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.
~ Stanislaw Jerszy Lec
So, i'm done with this topic.
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
~ Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
If I asked your opinion, I
If I asked your opinion, I want an honest answer. Is that to hard to give. You have no integrity. Oh, do you even know the meaning of the word?
If I came to your house and you ASKED me what I thought about your paint color I would tell you.
If you didn't ask me, I wouldn't tell you. Simple as that.
It's to bad you can't be honest. Your kids probably won't be honest with you either when It comes to some serious stuff. You only have yourself to blame, cause they're learning the "little white lying" first hand from mom. You might find it to be a big lie, but they may say "it was just a little white lie mom, just like you do".
" just my Opinion" LOL
Oh, and heres another saying
Oh, and heres another saying my parents with integrity taught me and my siblings.
"What's worst than a theif? A lier!"
anything more I need to say? Lying is wrong, no matter how little it is...
No one is perfect and we should try our very best to be a good example to those around us and our children.
" just my Opinion" LOL
Here you go again,
Here you go again, demonstrating your high standards by hauling personal insults at anyone who dares to disagree with you or point out your mistakes.
The vast majority of your posts are defensive and insulting.
I will teach my children that truth is relative. I will teach them to be gracious when they receive clothes for a gift, when they were hoping for a toy. I will teach them to first and foremost, consider other peoples' feeling in all of their interactions with others. I will teach them not to attack others on a personal basis, simply because they are frustrated with their own inadaquate level of articulation. I will teach them that "black & white" thinking is destructive and rarely gets them to the truth.
My point was that when I gave an HONEST opinion, your feelings were hurt. You were clearly embarrassed by your poor spelling skills and therefore went on the attack by calling me a "lier" (by the way, it's "liar"). My point is simply that "white lies" are often not lies at all, and that rigid, dogmatic, adherence to honesty (as you see it) at all costs, can be destructive.
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
Very well said, Optimist!
Very well said, Optimist!
Jennifer, mom to one special little boy
i second that!!! Very well
i second that!!! Very well said Optimist.
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
~ Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
It's funny how you seem to
It's funny how you seem to think you know my feeling, when you don't. You don't hurt my feelings and why should I be embarrassed, there is alot or a lot of poor spelling on this forum, but this is all you hit me with. It's easy to hit the spell check or the "wizard". "Alot" is a slang word, it was used as tokens as payment in the BIBLE. Obviously it bugs you ALOT!! Which I do find funny. (and probably the teachings of the BIBLE bug you too.)
I believe you are bothered that you will justify a LIE, and you can do that. It's just like I said before, when your kids do lie to keep from stressing you or hurting you, then don't get upset, they learned it first hand from you. I'm just calling a spade a spade and a liar a lier "oops" Liar. And you think it's ok to lie. Your conscience is obviously playing on you.
" just my Opinion" LOL
Me, I think anyone who has
Me, I think anyone who has an opinion you value will know how to handle these and all types of questions. Your friend, I am sure, values your opinion and you responded in an acceptable, non-harmful, non-hurtful manner.
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
Thank you!!
Thank you!!
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
~ Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
I was making your point for
I was making your point for you. I was being honest, as you suggested everyone should be. No white lies, to spare people's feelings.
As everyone reading these exchanges can see...it's not always the best policy.
As everyone reading these exchanges can also see...perhaps you are not the best person to question MY knowledge of the Bible or any book for that matter!
If you really lived the high standards that you claim, you'd refrain from attacking innocent children, in the hopes of getting back at their mom.
It's funny that Bible thumpers are the most defensive and offensive people I know!
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
I never attacked your
I never attacked your children.
Again a white lie on your part.
back on the other post, I said, that you probably expect to much from them.. It was at you, and you know it, but then, someone who is use to telling half truths will do that, just as you have.
And I do believe on a post sometime ago, you responded on the how you thought the Bible was nonsense. That would go hand in hand with someone who thinks it's ok to lie, whether it's a big lie or a small lie.
I stand firm, A lie is a lie. No matter why you do it.
Sit down with your kids at dinner and ask them, if they would like you to always be truthful to them or lie to spare there feelings? I know mine always want me to be truthful and honest.
FDR put it "Judge me by the enemies I have made" and if I made an enemy from you because I believe that a person should be a person of integrity and be honest and truthful, than that is fine with me. I would prefer to surround myself and my kids with ppl of integrity.
Again, "birds of feather flock together". so far it looks like you, niffer and the heart lady all could hang out and just agree together even if you don't really agree.
My friends know that I do my best to be honest and truthful and they can always count on that with me.
What can your friends and family count on with you?
Nothing seems to be absolute with you, it's all realitive.
" just my Opinion" LOL
Nope...wrong again...I never
Nope...wrong again...I never called the Bible nonsense.
I simply made the point that truth IS relative, no matter how much you want it to be black and white. People of every religious background believe that that know the truth and yet their beliefs differ. Are there different "truths"? - Absolutely!
The intelligent and articulate need not bring up suppositions about others' children to make a point.
Anyone reading this can see that at no time did I post a lie, nor a white lie. Where you are pulling this from, is beyond me. I proposed a situation for consideration. How you have the audacity and insolence to call me a liar, simply illustrates your dogmatic, myopic ignorance.
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
if you missed it the first
if you missed it the first time:
FDR put it "Judge me by the enemies I have made" and if I made an enemy from you because I believe that a person should be a person of INTEGRITY and be honest and truthful, than that is fine with me. I would prefer to surround myself and my kids with ppl of integrity.
The fact is you feel it's ok to lie and you will make every excuse up for it. And you won't think twice when you do it. You will not only condone it, you will try to justify it by putting the blame on the other person that has asked you a question. You feel you have to lie to make them feel good, and by doing that you blame them, because if they didn't ask you, you wouldn't have had to lie about. Like lets say your friend asks you if you like her new haircut, your gonna say yes it's looks nice, when you may really think it looks awful. But you justify your lie to yourself by thinking, " I wouldn't have had to lie if she didn't ask me", so your really blaming her for it.
There's a reason for lying, but it's no excuse for it. You can say all you want, but I don't know why you just don't admit that you feel it's ok to lie, to make yourself feel better it's not about the other person.. Like I said before, you enjoy that wide road your on, it's just to bad others innocently have to follow. This world is filled with enough liars, cheats and thieves. I would think ppl would try to make honesty and truthfullness apart of their everyday life, but I guess i'm wrong. Everyone for themselves as this world puts it. But I will continue to try with the ones around me and the ppl I meet to show integrity, honesty and truthfulness.
"Tell it like it is" as humble and loving as I can do it. But of course when ppl don't like what they hear, of course they're gonna say that your being mean. Oh well!! truth hurts! ALOT :)
" just my Opinion" LOL
I don't blame anyone but
I don't blame anyone but myself for my actions. It's called taking responsibility for your own actions. For me....this includes what you say to others. But i am curious to know how would you handle the situation you just put out there?
You wrote:
"Like lets say your friend asks you if you like her new haircut, your gonna say yes it's looks nice, when you may really think it looks awful."
.....And your response to your friend would be?
Those who are the hardest to love, need it the most
~Socrates
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
~ Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
I really, really should just
I really, really should just leave this alone, but just can't.
If my best friend asks me what I think about her new haircut, I answer based on what I think of it, but still try to not be hurtful. I prefer not to say things like "It's hideous! Good thing it's hair and will grow back out!". I might, however, say something like "It's different and may take some getting used to". Yet somehow you think this is a bad thing, that I'm a bad friend? Well if being a good friend involves continually hurting the feelings of someone I care about with my brutal honesty, then I'll pass.
As far as your thinking that if you're willing to tell a "white lie", you'll lie about anything (even "big" stuff), that's not at all true. Anyone who knows me will tell you I'm the most honest person they know; I couldn't tell a "big" lie to save my life. Guess that blows your theory.
I pray you never fall of that high horse you're sitting upon; the impact from that far up could really hurt!
Jennifer, mom to one special little boy
first let me correct your
first let me correct your spelling before Optimist does, it's off not of. And, why is it that because I think a lie is a lie, I'm on a high horse? I said a lot earlier I'm not perfect, but I "try" my best to hold myself to the same standards as I do others, including my family.. Which includes not lying, AGAIN, TO ME, a lie is a lie..
Yes, I do try me best to life my life according to the example I have been given by my Lord and Saviour, if that means I'm gonna be called a Bible thumber, so be it, my feelings aren't hurt. I would rather have a firm foundation that I stand on, than be wishy washy, and just agree with everyone and just say this and that even if I don't agree with it.
again I repeat what FDR said, Judge me by the enemies I have made.. If it's because I call a lie what it is a lie, then good.. At least my friends and family know that I have integrity, and I am leading my children by example, the best example that I can be for them.
To me there is not such thing as a "big lie" verses a "little lie", a lie is a lie.
Back to the question on what I would say if I didn't like my friends haircut. Funny you asked, I had lunch with my friend yesterday, she just started a new job by my house and actually just started working after being a stay at home mom for 15years, so she went and bought a new wardrobe and all that neat stuff you do. We met at Paradise Bakery, and when she walked in she not only cut her hair, she colored it and I mean colored it. She asked with hesitation what I thought, maybe she read my facial expressions, but I told her graciously, " I prefer it the other color, with maybe some streaks and I liked your hair long".. She responded with a chuckle and said " I can count on you to always tell me the truth, but I think I went to dark on the color, but I like it short and what matters is what I think, Joe (her husband) liked it long too".... So no feelings hurt and so again, me and my friend for many years had a great lunch, talked alot, agreed to disagree on things, gave hugs and a I love you as we do..
Need I say more. She can count on me and I can count on her for anything including being honest and truthful with each other, that what has made our friendship bond strong and long lasting..
So, you ladies can go ahead and cut me down, but, know one thing if I were your friends in the real world, i would be a honest and truthful person. I suppose it's to hard a concept for some of you.
One other thing, when someone like Optimist says I ATTACKED her kids on another post, I did not, If you want to read and attack on someone's kids, read back on the Victoria's secret one, when my daughter was called a filthy name and was drug through the dirt, by another mom on here that continues to use filthy as her way to disagree, I am amazed that no one every says anything to her.
" just my Opinion" LOL
Perhaps it would behoove you
Perhaps it would behoove you to use that same tact with the other moms on this site and still be honest with them at the same time. I am sure your advice would then be taken as sincere and not as an attack. Because honestly....you are coming across as though you are perfect and as i stated earlier....NONE of us (including you) are perfect.
If you treat others with respect, 99% of the time you will be treated with respect. (yes, unfortunately theres always that 1% or so that don't know any better) This should include people you know and especially people you don't know. Whether it's face to face contact or not.
We may not always see how we are coming across to others...so take time to put the same effort in to your responses on this site.
Just something for you to think about.
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
~ Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
Um either way they read what
Um either way they read what I say or they can pass over mine.. If I get the point across good.. I would say for you. You will probably think twice before you lie, or at least your conscience will play on you a bit before you answer, and then you will make the choice whether to be graciously honest or lie. As far as Optimist goes, she will do what she has to, to benefit herself and that seems to be her example and she sees nothing wrong with it. I see ALOT wrong with it.
Ya know those ppl that think there really is no right or wrong, they live in the grey all the time, no absolutes just relative. And always saying "lets live happy together" Kumbaya.
" just my Opinion" LOL
Differentdrum - How is your
Differentdrum -
How is your comment/handling of the proposed situation, different from mine, where you stated that I "have no integrity", because of the similar way in which I phrased my honesty?
YOURS - (about a friend's new hair cut)
"I prefer it the other color, with maybe some streaks and I liked your hair long"
MINE - (about a friend's new decor)
"wow - it sure looks like you've put a lot of work into this room! Bravo! I don't know how you do it"
If you take the time to actually reread my posts, you'll easily see that you probably crossed the line by calling me "a liar" and stating that I "have no integrity" and that my kids "will learn to tell white lies like" their mother, simply because I choose to look for something to compliment in others! I NEVER stated, nor implied a lie. I simply pointed out that just because something is YOUR OPINION, doesn't make it THE TRUTH.
When you tell the "truth", you are simply stating your opinion. When I tell the "truth", I am stating my opinion. What makes your opinion superior to mine? ....Because you added a criticism? NOTHING IN MY STATEMENT WAS A LIE! I don't feel that my opinion is so God awful important that I need to hurt someone's feelings, to tell them the "truth".
Your truth is only true for you! Do you not see that?????
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
see there you go. You see a
see there you go. You see a lie or truth as an opinion, but mainly benefiting you.. You have no firm foundation that you stand on. If lying and cheating means gettting ahead or avoiding a conflict, sounds like thats what you would do. You seem to live your life on sinking sand, instead of a solid rock. As far as you go, again, Enjoy that wide road, which leads to destruction. I'm glad my kids do live by integrity and truth.
Honesty must not be in your vocabulary. Because the main question is a white lie a lie, It's a simple yes or no answer and the answer is Yes.. Look it up in the dictionary.
It's question with a simple answer, you just want to protect yourself with a long explanation in case you every have to lie, or condone or justify it. But what it truely and honestly boils down to, is you agree that it is ok to lie when the situation you think calls for it and I believe NO matter what the situation is, you should ALWAYS tell the truth..
" just my Opinion" LOL
I have never disagreed that
I have never disagreed that honesty is the best policy, as a general rule. You have no foundation for assuming that I lie or condone lying in my personal life. For the record, I subscribe to the utilitarian philosophy of the greatest good for the greatest number. Lying does not benefit the greatest good, therefore, it goes against my ethical standard. However, not bashing someone's taste, had absolutely nothing to do with lying. I don't need to critique them, to provide a thoughtful, truthful answer.
I'm curious then, how you deal with situational ethics? For the sake of argument, let's take a basic question posed in all philosophy 101 classes...
- You are living in Germany during World War II. Out of your Christian ethics, you take in a long time neighbor and friend, who happens to be Jewish. The Nazi's come to your door and demand to know if you are hiding any Jews. - Do you lie?
There is always a "greater good" . I simply contend that one's almost pathological need to adhere to rigid rules, regardless of circumstances, does not always serve that greater good.
One must be careful to scrutinize one's motivations. Telling YOUR truth, at all costs, may only be benefiting you and not that greater good.
I applaud your attempt to live by such a rule, but I applaud it more for you to realize that complex human interactions cannot be reduced to a one size fits all rule. Even the Bible is filled with such contradictions. I understand that these ideas are disquieting to those who greatly desire consistency. But, embracing life's subtleties leads to the greatest truth. I wish you luck in its pursuit!
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
ARE YOU KIDDING
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????????
Differentdrum - A truth can be an opinion. Just because you do not like your friends haircut does not mean i would not like your friends haircut. I may think its cute and therefore i may tell her it's cute. Does that make me a liar or wrong? NO! Does that make you a liar or wrong? NO!
Do you get it? That would be my truth. However, it's not your truth because you do not like it. Because someone does not agree with your "truth" - does not make the other person wrong or a liar.
Honesty:
1. the quality or fact of being honest; uprightness and fairness.
2. truthfulness, sincerity, or frankness.
3. freedom from deceit or fraud.
Does this make any kind of sense to you?
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
~ Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
differentdrum - Other than
differentdrum - Other than the obvious, death and taxes, laws of physics, etc. ..LOL...can you provide an absolute truth, that is true for all, in ALL situations? No, you can't. Therefore, the others are correct. Truth is relative...And a person can both recognize that fact and strive to reach the best, mutual, truth in all situations.
What can you offer as absolute truth within human interactions? Because I can almost guarentee that I can find an exception to that truth that will make YOU the liar!
Your attitude borders on the obsurd!
You guys all most go the the
You guys all most go the the unitarian church! :P
Wide is that road that leads to destruction.
FDR again put it well, when he said:
Judge me by the enemies I have made..
obviously for me, it's because I chose to call a lie what it is a lie..so if me saying being Honest and truthful is how we should try to live and teach our kids is right then I am perfectly fine with you lack of Integrity promote lying moms being my enemy.
" just my Opinion" LOL
I just read another post
I just read another post that made me think of this: at any point in your childrens' lives, have you allowed them to believe in Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy?
Jennifer, mom to one special little boy
Differentdrum - Is there any
Differentdrum - Is there any chance that you'll stop reiterating the same quotes of others' eloquence and simply answer some of the specific questions put before you, in your own words?
Can you provide an absolute truth in regard to human interactions? Can you answer the Nazi situational ethics question? We get your rigid ideal. What we don't get is how you can so absolutely carry it into practice - or, at least be so certain that others' attempts at the same make us liars....
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
Differentdrum - Just answer
Differentdrum - Just answer the question.....
In response to your assumption - I do not belong to the Unitarian Church. But since you decided to head down that road...I would like to know what religion you belong to that does not allow you to think or speak for yourself.
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
~ Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
I'm not even sure what the
I'm not even sure what the Unitarian Church is (no offense to anyone who might belong)!
Jennifer, mom to one special little boy
Wow, sounds like a battle
Wow, sounds like a battle here.
Taking a chance, I am new to this, I have to say I agree with DD that lying is lying no matter how you try to make it sweet. This whole thing is kinda silly. But sounds like some really head strong women not wanting to give in or admit when something or someone is right. (in the sense that you can't justify a lie)
I think the main question was, is lying wrong. I would say Yes it is. You guys never answered her question.
I read everything and she sounds like she said she isn't perfect and that she has lied, but strives her best to do what she knows is right. And I say good for you DD most people do try to make excuses for lying, whether for the common good or not. I would not respond to this anymore DD if I were you, It's not worth your time. But I look forward to reading more of your post.
It's nice to know that there really are people out there that still have strong morals.. Kuddos to you different drum. I also walk to the beat of a different drummer, Jesus.
Lie: make a false statement or untrue statement.
False: deceptive, wrong, erroneous
Actually, no one here said
Actually, no one here said that lying is not the wrong choice, nor that we justify or condone it. We were discussing the subtleties of the situations presented. Why isn't delving intellectually into a subject more thoroughly, worth someone's time? Kuddos to EVERYONE of the women posting here who have strong morals.
I thought that I did answer dd's question, but if not. YES, lying is GENERALLY the wrong choice in MOST situations. But, it is not ALWAYS the wrong choice. And, that was MY ONLY POINT. For the ability to recognize that fact, dd called me a liar and cast aspersions upon my children's abilities to learn to tell the "truth". I agree, there are some head strong women here, who refuse to admit when they've crossed the line.
I am NOT a liar, but I WILL continue to find SOMETHING to compliment about my friend's new house or her new haircut, that she is so excited about, without selfishly seeking the gratification of expressing all of my opinions ('truths"), regardless of their impact upon her feelings! That kind of dogmatic adherence to one's own "truth" is also called narcissism. I'm amazed that the old adage, "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all", is viewed by some as "lying"! I simply pointed out that I can provide a positive, thoughtful, response to something that is not my personal, aesthetic, preference without lying and without criticising another's preferences.
And, I'd be surprised by anyone who can say that one should NOT "lie" in the Nazi example (or any of the hundreds of others similar examples that I could put forth) . The real problem in this debate is that some refuse to admit that there are legitimate, conditions under which,lying is the more moral thing to do. Is that so hard? I did commend dd for trying so vigilantly to apply an ethical code to her actions. It is admirable.
But, I suppose you are right that this is not the place for such a conversation. My friends, colleagues, professors and I have these type of conversations frequently, but I should remember to know my audience, as it were.
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
I guess we will never know
I guess we will never know how differentdrum would have answered that question. On one hand i was afraid to know what the answer might be.
But since there is no response from her....I think its safe to presume her response would have been the same as mine. Yes, she would have lied to the Nazi's to save her long time Jewish friend.
...And if protecting my friend in a situation like that....makes me a LIAR...I am proud of it. Because I know.....my god will forgive me for telling such a bold faced lie to save another humans life.
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
~ Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)