I know I'm petty for this, but it really gets on my nerves when people come to church after the service has started, then want the people sitting in the pews to 'scoot down' so they can flop down next to the aisle. This is especially convenient for many of the 'late crowd', because they often bolt out the door early -- and the aisle seat gives them easy access to the door.
I realize that everyone can be late once in awhile, but it seems it's the SAME people who arrive 5 or 10 minutes late EVERY week. And many of those who are told to squash themselves into the center of the pews are the ones who make a point of getting to church EARLY so they can sit on the aisle --- some for comfort, but others due to health or mobility problems. It doesn't seem fair to penalize those who make the effort to get there on time. But if we DON'T 'squeeze in' to make room for latecomers, we get mean looks and often a jab in the ribs from the ushers. The ushers also do NOT like it if we tell the latecomers that THEY can shuffle past us to sit in the middle of the pew so we can remain seated where we are.
Again, I know it's petty and that I should make the sacrifice but it still bugs me!!! If I got to the theatre early to choose a great seat and then someone came in after the movie started and wanted me to move to a rotten spot so he/she could take my place, I'd say 'no way!'
I agree with you 100%. My
I agree with you 100%. My DH refuses to scoot over! He just moves his legs ignores them. It is pretty funny to watch him. We did have an unsher ask us to scoot over for 1 person and DH loooked at the usher and said rather loudly "What? Ah, NO thanks!" Ushers now avoid us like the plague.
WWJD?? I cringe reading
WWJD??
I cringe reading this. I am often late, so I feel defensive.... "I've got TWO 2 year olds to get ready for heaven's sake." but I haven't ever asked anyone to scoot out of their seat, so I am not guilty on that count. I do appreciate it when people show they are looking for ways to make it easier for us to find a place, knowing it was hectic to get there at all. Sometimes people set up more chairs, or may move over. It is appreciated and seems appropriate in light of what we are supposed to be doing and learning together. (We also attend a contemporary service, so it may not be as formal as yours.)
Having the latecomers pile over people is more disruptive than everyone scooting over, and blocks and distracts others, so it makes sense the ushers would prefer this.
Try not to let it bother you, I know in our case we are just trying to get there to be in fellowship before it's over.
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
If you're late once in
If you're late once in awhile, that's understandable. But if you're haibitually late, then shame on you! Church starts the SAME time every week, so why not realize that in light of past problems, you need to start getting ready 10 minutes earlier?
I do understand with young kids it's easy to be late, but if everyone who had little ones used that as an excuse, more than half the congregants would be moseying in late every week!
And as for WWJD -- I think "J" would make getting to his Dad's house on time a priority!
If you think Jesus' focus
If you think Jesus' focus would be on what time you arrived, and not that you are there with an open, loving heart, you are learning differently than I am.
We are saved by grace. Forgiveness. Jesus was not impressed with people who felt THEY should set and enforce rules. In fact, he scolded them for missing the point.
I was late once because I just learned my friend was in the hospital for a burst aneurism. I needed to go to church to deal with this. If people would have been selfish about their seats or judgemental about my tardiness, it would have had the exact opposite effect on my soul as what I was seeking in my place of grace and fellowship. You don't know why people are late or what is in their hearts and we are asked to focus on ourselves anyway. Who can throw stones??
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
I understand that you have 2
I understand that you have 2 two yo to get ready......at one time I had 2 two yo and 6 yo to get ready.....then I had a nursing infant, 2 four yo and a 8 yo to get ready AND be there for 6 am mass.
We liked sitting in the front pew so that the twins would pay more attention so we would actually get to church by 5:45.
I know your pain first hand but if you are regularly late then I suggest you change the time you attend so you can make it on time or you change your wake up routine.
I would suggest you not
I would suggest you not worry about my 6 or our schedule. We are quite happy in our congregation of friends, whether we are welcoming the late comers, or being welcomed.
I have no desire to be a hall monitor, I have enough other reasons to be in church.
As I understand it your organization and sacrifice to get to church by 5:45 is valued by the Catholic church. If it makes you happy and you can do it, good for you! We Protestants don't seem to focus on it as much and that is good for me!
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
I smile when I read this
I smile when I read this post and the replies! I'm just happy to read people are still going to church! My bishop asks our congregation to be in our seats 5 minutes early so we can listen to the prelude music and kinda get ourselves tuned in. Occasionally we are late and when we are, we generally sit in the back where there is open space.
sure, fine, whatever
I don't like late comers
I don't like late comers either. The last experience we had was that there were 3 seats in the middle. The mom had 4 kids with her. They were probably 8- 13 years old. Mass had been going on for probably 15 minutes and she pushes right past us and stops by the 3 chairs for 5 people. I felt bad she misjudged so bad. These people will never change. I just think what the late comers are missing.
Girls, Girls, Girls, let's
Girls, Girls, Girls, let's try to remember who we are and what we're doing in those pews. We are imperfect people who are gladly gathering with other imperfect people to celebrate that fact that it's okay not to be perfect.
Not to be rude, MiriamVS, but seats in the sanctuary aren't at all like seats at the theatre. If they were, at the beginning of the service, Jesus would ask everyone in the back rows to come to the front, and those in the front to move back, just like He did at that celebration where people were jockeying to get nearer to the head of the table.
There's a tradition in my (Episcopal) church where families actually buy pews, and pay rent on them. These days, it's just symbolic; I can't imagine asking an usher at our family's "home church" in Colorado, where my grandparents bought a pew and paid rent in perpetuity, and where I was baptised, and where I buried my Dad, to tell somebody to get out of "my pew". Especially because it's prime real estate. Second row right.
When I'm lucky enough to go to church there, I just whisper my name to the usher, and I get snuggled into "my pew" along with other folks who are there the attend to the same business. Most of the folks who choose to sit there are either extended family or friends, anyway, and often, they'll make me stumble across to sit between two people who are very happy to see me. Or the stray cousin will get a sudden, urgent, silent, cell phone call that makes her run. That's amusing, too, but that's not a church story.
If you don't want to scoot, the polite thing is for your entire family to back out, and welcome the newcomers in to the middle, introducing your family members by name and/or saying "hello" to people you know; everyone should shake hands or hug (as appropriate) as the new family passes into the middle of the pew.
The point isn't 'where'
The point isn't 'where' people sit --- although I can't imagine "buying" a pew in church! --- it's the issue of being late, especially chronically late. Sure everyone is 'imperfect,' but Jesus' message wasn't to use that as an excuse to settle into such a rut.
Showing up late week after week says "this is NOT a priority for me, there's no need to make an effort to improve, and everyone else can be inconvenienced to accommodate ME." That's not a good message to send to your fellow congregants, and it's a terrible example to set for your children.
And this is why I don't go
And this is why I don't go to church at all. I'm a firm believer in the Christian faith, so don't get me wrong about that. I just don't want to feel pressured to impress people at the church or conform to what everyone else believes is appropriate behavior. Let me elaborate...
- Do you know exactly what their morning schedule is? If they have kids, do those kids wake up at a certain time each day in order to get their sleep? If they try to get to church 10 minutes early, does that mean that the kids have to get up 10 minutes early? Will that cause the kids to be grumpy and distracting and make your time at church more frustrating?
My point is - church is supposed to be a place where people come together as a community and worship God. Forgive those people and show your support of their attendance at church by leaving a few rows in the back open for latecomers. Hopefully they'll get the hint after a few weeks.
For those who are shunning my lack of church, I make sure to spend time with my family every Sunday while I'm not going to church. And I work my faith into my daily life.
I agree with you...I got
I agree with you...I got tired of the people who were always keeping track of who showed up when or how often, what they wore, etc.......I used to work with a guy who would perform usher duties at his church and his wife worked in the nursery.....and one day he actually complained about another woman who worked in the nursery every week, but he never saw her at service....he said "well, MY wife always goes to a service and then to the nursery, why isn't this person attending a service" so i said "She probably prefers the company of the babies to the busybody churchgoers who are more focused on watching what everyone else is doing than listening to the word of God...".......lol
I agree that the tardiness
I agree that the tardiness is a problem and for those of you who are tardy, and I understand the child thing, please think of the minestry and how this makes them feel when they are starting church and you have so many late people coming in.
I grew up with a mother that was late on a regular basis and church was no exeption, now I try to always be a few mintues early, after all being able to say a freindly hello before services starts is never a bad thing.
You may want to try talking to your father/pastor/minister as in my church the tardiness was such an issue for our parish that the father closed the door during the persesion and then reopened it after they were at the front and settled. I have noticed since he did this that it seems that we have less late comers.
The were you sit in church although shouldn't really matter you should be able to enjoy church and if you are more comfortable in an isle, I agree that you stay there. Before church and during busy times our father will ask us to move in if we are comfortable doing so, so that everyone has space to fill, it is kind of hard to not move in when the preist is asking this of you.
If it really bothers you and is taking away from your spiritual experiance I would consider talking with the cleragy as they may be getting the same coments from other parties.
I agree with lovemy4, I am
I agree with lovemy4, I am guilty of arriving late to church on occasion. A few times we were just running late, sometimes there's a line to check my four children to Sunday school. I sometimes see people come in 15-20 minutes late. My church is huge so its impossible to know the habitual late comers. When I am already seated I happily move over or stand up to let someone pass. My pastor sometimes even asks in the beginning of service to please sit towards the middle of the aisle for anyone running late. I dont mind at all I am glad people are taking time for Jesus. Have a little patience for anyone running late to service, don't waste your energy on it you don't know why there are late but you do know at least they are taking time to worship.
Yes, I would agree that late
Yes, I would agree that late comers are a bit distracting. I woud also agree that a person getting others ready (kids) and themselves is time consuming. But as a mother of an 8-year old, 6-year old and a 7-month old (all girls), I know how much time it takes to get us all ready and to church on time. Seeing that my children (the two oldest) go to a private catholic school, being on time for church is just as important as being on time for school, in our house. Yes, sometimes people may need to be late (traffic, etc), but please try not to distract the ones that were on time.
There is no way to be a perfect mother, but a million ways to be a good one!
I remember a cleric telling
I remember a cleric telling us re: coming late to church and sneaking out early:
"None of the Apostles showed up late for the Last Supper, and the one who left early --- well that ended badly!"
I guess situations like this are best handled with humor
I did e-mail my pastor and
I did e-mail my pastor and asked "How do you feel about late comers. Is there scripture to support your view?"
Here is his answer: "I tend to be charitable about late-comers. It doesn't bother me, I'm just glad they are there - people have a lot of other options for their Sunday mornings these days! I've never thought of this one in terms of Scripture - for me it's just a matter of grace!"
I wrote back that I thought that is what he'd say, and I'm glad!
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
So your pastor favors "good
So your pastor favors "good intentions?"
What is that old saying about good intentions paving the road?
LOL
He doesn't say anything
He doesn't say anything about good intentions in his response. He says he's happy they are there, late is better than never. (That is Jesus' message too...)
To your point, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions " isn't from the Bible, my guess is it was written by some body watching other people's business.
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
that response cracked me
that response cracked me up....good one
The "buying the pew" thing
The "buying the pew" thing is just a tradition; it's a way for people to proclaim that they belong, and to support the building fund. It's why I could, essentially, just show up at St. Stephen's and say that I wanted to schedule my Dad's funeral -- even though the priest and I had never met. Four generations of the family have been baptised there (including me), and we're working on three generations of funerals.
So, do you suppose that Jesus is more (inappropriate term) at the people who show up late to church, or at the people who don't welcome the latecomers? He does, after all, get (inappropriate term) off; remember Him wreaking havoc over people trying to turn the church into a market?
He got whipped and beaten and crucified to give us a little favor called everlasting love and life, and you think, in His house, it's an indignation to scoot?
I so agree with
I so agree with lovemy4.......
I always sit in the middle, so those who may need to sit closer to the asile can.
I am also not there to take notice on who is late and how many times...why in the world would I judge someone...in a place I should NOT judge !
If you're looking for a
If you're looking for a scripture re: being late, remember the parable of the Foolish Virgins:
Now the kingdom of heaven may be compared to ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent. When the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep. But at midnight there was a shout, "Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him." Then all these virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. Now the foolish said to the prudent, "Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out." But the prudent answered saying, "No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves." Now while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut. Then the other virgins also came but LATE, saying, "Lord, Lord, open up for us." But he answered them and said, "Truly I say to you, I do not know you." Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.
Those silly virgins. But
Those silly virgins.
But the Lord isn't closing the door to people late for church, you are.
Mathew 7:1 - Judge not least ye be judged.
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
Great minds think a like
Great minds think a like lovemy4....
that was my point.Who am I to judge someone in the Lords house! To me that is FOOLISH!
I am there praying for my sins....all the while I am judging the person next to me.....hmmm....??
I know a mom, a friend who works sunday, 5am to 10am...she still makes it to church and always fifteen minutes late at least.And those who don't know her and judge her for being late....well they are the fools.She is a very good person.
Wow! Seems like I really
Wow! Seems like I really touched a nerve with some of you gals! Hmmm....
It just seems that this 'hey, better late than never!' attitude makes it sound like chronic latecomers think they are doing God a favor just by showing up. Like he should be SOOOOO grateful that they made time to squeeze him into their busy schedules (sort of, any way.) Jesus DID endure so much for us, it isn't much to ask that we make paying respects in his house a priority, is it?
And as for the message about 'not judging' --- it would come off much better if it weren't laced with snarky remarks and condemnations about 'busybodies' and 'fools!" A little food for thought there!
LOL
Why don't we all just pray for eachother? That truly is WJWD!!!
I just double-checked, and
I just double-checked, and I'm glad that I wasn't grouchy and calling names. I just want to, in as loving and as charitable a way I can, help you understand the nerve you touched with me.
Right now, because of schedules and transportation, it's next to impossible for me to go to mass on Sunday morning. Nobody's fault; I'm sure God understands. So, if I take the bus, and it runs late, Jesus would prefer that I skip the service all together rather than slip in after the first hymn?
We don't know anybody else's life, do we? In the end, how tough is it to scoot, rather than let someone else be embarrassed trying to sit down in chuch? If it happens over and over, bring it up one-in-one and privately.
Likewise, don't condemn
Likewise, don't condemn people as "busybodies" --- we don't know their lives either, do we? For the most part, people aren't there on time to watch where others sit, what they're wearing, who comes when, etc. They are there to WORSHIP and have made their own sacrifices to be there for the entire service.
And it is impossible NOT to notice when --- in a quiet, hushed church, when evertyhing is silent except for the sound of the Lord's words being spoken --- someone ambles in late and dislocates others in the process of being seated. It really shatters the reverent atmosphere, and that isn't being judgmental --- it's just stating a fact.
So whatever the excuse --- work, the kids, car trouble, etc. --- keep in mind that being late IS disruptive to the other congregants as well as to the minister and should be avoided as much as possible. Again, that is just basic respect.
Wow. I'm reading this right
Wow. I'm reading this right now and a wave of animosity totally is rushing over me. I was going to put up a post about if anyone had gone to a certain church when I came across this and this scares me a little.
Without getting all religion crazy or preaching this is all I'm going to contribute. I hope that God is forgiving if I'm a few minutes late because I had my two children to get ready for church as well. I hope God is loving enough to understand that some mornings are harder than others and by me being 5 minutes late I'm still showing that I love him and that I walking into his home late, but no less disrespectful had I made it on time. I hope that God is understanding enough to realize that his children aren't perfect (because he made us all imperfectly) and sometimes we are 5 minutes late to service. And I hope that by being good Christians the people that I choose to go to church with will not be so judgmental to not scoot over a little if they can and make room for us to seat next to them in the pew and celebrate our God.
I hope now that I'm faced with a very tough road of choices ahead, the church I select won't shun me for being late if it happens. I hope they will embrace me with my choice that knowing I might be late, I still bothered to show up and choose to have God in my life. Maybe the people writing the negative comments should listen to a song called "what if she's an angel" by Brad Paisley.
"It's not to late to become who you've always wanted to be..."
I hear you.... I sometimes
I hear you....
I sometimes feel like I am losing faith, mainly due to the actions of some othe Christians..............but that really has nothing to do with the Lord, it has to do with the fact that we are all fallible humans, and some people feel like it makes them more worthy in the Lord's eyes to constantly condemn others.............the comments like the above, the comments I got from my EX children's pastor like "well, what a suprise to see you bringing your son to church...can we hope for two weeks in a row" instead of "nice to see you, Mrs.M, we are glad you are here".......I think sometimes people in church get all wrapped up in their righteous indignation about being on time, on attending regularly, etc and don't realize they are discouraging and pushing others away from church, not pulling them in. Who wants to be in fellowship with others who are smugly watching and criticizing their every move, looking for opportunities to bring them down instead of lifitng them up?
I think perhaps the issue is
I think perhaps the issue is WHY people choose to go to church. Are you choosing to go because you want to socialize, to enjoy 'fellowship,' to feel good about yourself, to learn and experiment with different faiths, to worship via particual rituals, to get that warm fuzzy feeling, or to 'judge' others, whether denouncing them for their lax behavior or condemn them as busybodies when they don't meet your standards of flexibility.
If you choose a service that is more 'open' and 'informal' then maybe being late isn't as much of a problem as it is in rituals where there is a set format, and latecomers interfer with the reverent tone of such. And again, anyone can be late ONCE IN AWHILE, that is understandable, but being chronically late just shows a complete lack of respect for everyone involved.
When children come late to school, they are marked 'tardy,' not because the teacher is being a 'busybody' and is insensitive to their reasons for being late, but because there is a set class schedule and missing even part of it is disruptive to the entire process. If every child just wandered in whenever then the system would break down altogether. It shows respect and deference to make the effort to get there on time, and doesn't attending worship service deserve the same attention?
It's true that church is supposed to be a COMMUNITY event, not a 'what's in it for me?' gesture, so wouldn't it be just showing basic decency to make every effort to help the service run smoothly and without interuption?
I agree that being late all
I agree that being late all the time can be annoying and disruptive but who are you to judge the reason's why someone is. Have you ever asked this person what's going on in their life? Maybe they are late because they work 2 jobs one being a night job on Saturday so they have a hard time waking up to be there Sunday. Then there will be me. I know by choosing to go to church every Sunday I'm literally asking for an argument every Sunday morning from my husband. So at 10:05 when I show up with tears in my eyes would you turn your back on me? People have issues, people have problems, my point is don't judge them for being late, judge them for making an effort to show up and accept God into their heart and life.
Church is a community event but even more, do you want to be a part of a community who is judgmental without walking in someone elses shoes. A great saying I heard not too long ago is "don't be so quick to throw stones at someone when you live in a glass box." I'm sure your not perfect and I'm sure there has been one time in your life that you have been late for church, possibly even twice.
My point is people have issues and problems but instead of judging them by only thier faults, can't you as a good Christian look past them and commend them for their good heart and spirit?
"It's not to late to become who you've always wanted to be..."
Miriam - I think you really
Miriam - I think you really can't see the forest for the trees.
I also think my busybody comment was right on target.
Just for the record, I have never been late to church...not once, and I make a habit of punctuality............nor did I come to church to socialize, or sit in smug judgement of others....I came to seek the word of God, and not to impress other people. I think it is the general attitude of people such as you that gives many people pause about religion in general, because your focus is on being punitive and shaming others.
Just out of curiosity....what would you like to see happen to the latecomers, instead of putting you to the immense inconvenience of having to scoot a few inches.....would you prefer that upon the realization they are a few minutes late, they should slink away in shame instead of coming in and joingin in fellowship? Probably, right....because that makes you feel better about yourself for being on time and therefore more "worthy" in God's eyes.
Think about it.
Wow! The hostility is
Wow! The hostility is stinging!!!
Again, I don't think it is being "JUDGMENTAL" to be jolted when, as you're trying to listen to such profound words and place yourself in the presence of the Lord, you see and hear the shuffling in of latecomers. Many clerics remind their parishoners to TRY TO MAKE AN EFFORT to be on time --- and I don't think they are being judgmental, either. I don't get why the reasonable expectation of trying to make it on time is so offensive. Would you spew rage at your boss if he asked you to try not to be late all the time? Would you scream at your kids' teachers for saying tardiness is a problem for kids who are late? Or do you just assign those policies to those who think being on time at church shows respect?
And I don't get why it's so important to justify lateness rather than stop and think "wow, maybe I AM interferring with other's when I come in late" or "it IS disrepectful to the pastor when I interupt him in mid-speech" and just make a mental note to be more aware of this?
To be honest, when we're running late we usually go to a later service --- out of repsect but also because we want to set an example for our kids that being on time is important than just "showing up." But if I came in late, I would remain in the back if the congregation was seated and the pastor was talking. Then, when it wouldn't be disruptive, I'd try to find a place to sit that would involve the least disruption. And I would make it a point NOT to be late again the next week, because this is a priority for me. Our pastor always reminds us that giving to the collection should be the FIRST thing we budget, not the last scraps leftover after we've spent the rest of our money. That is the same way we budget our TIME, that is, that church comes first.
And no, no one is on time ALL THE TIME, but I honestly don't understand the complacent attitude of 'well, if I get there whenever, it's ok --- God will take my scraps." Sure, God will understand, but have I understood the role of religion in my life if I treat it so casually? Isn't this a question of priorities?
Obviously you don't share that opinion, so we must agree to disagree. And I seriously do think the best answer is to pray for eachother --- because we ARE all flawed human beings, and can use all the prayers we can get!
I'm sorry that you see your
I'm sorry that you see your viewpoint being challenged as hostility...I do agree that we will have to agree to disagree on this, and that we are all flawed...and we should try to be more forgiving of each other's flaws. I am trying to do that myself!
I agree completely on this
I agree completely on this comment. And we will have to agree to disagree.
"It's not to late to become who you've always wanted to be..."
Miriam, We aren't trying to
Miriam,
We aren't trying to be hostile. We are, really, trying to offer other ways of looking at the issue -- which is what we do on this forum. I've been guilty of getting a little too excited about a subject, and I've apologized for doing so. Nobody is here to trash anybody else.
I would like to point out that you responded to the "busy-body" comment to me, and I wasn't the one who made it. Katy just calls it as she sees it, and we value her input as much as anyone else's. We value yours.
I have a challenge for you. The next time you find yourself getting irritated because you have to scoot so that a latecomer can sit down without a fuss, make a point to introduce yourself after the service and welcome him/her/them, and invite them to coffee.
We can cite Scripture back and forth until we're blue in the face, but, in the end, the point isn't in the words that have been translated and interpreted from a dozen different languages. The point is, "Love one another. Look after one another. Play nice." There is no "unless they". Jesus asks us to visit people in prison. It seems to me that it's a heck of a lot easier to help a new friend get to church on time than it is to help a drug dealer make different choices.
It is interesting Miriam
It is interesting Miriam that you started your post with "I know I'm petty...but..." and yet you are defending your self- described "petty" problem and seem defensive when others agree that it is petty.
So, I don't think we are agreeing to disagree, I think we are agreeing with you since you "know it's petty."
O.K. Definately enough on this subject! Interesting!
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
Well put, Lovemy4. You're
Well put, Lovemy4. You're so good at hitting the target. Thanks.
lovemy4...I was too going to
lovemy4...I was too going to comment on " I know I am petty"
I actually thought it was great that M was owning that....I got turned around because as I read on, it seemed as though that train of thought went south...in a hurry!
As far as my " Fool" comment.....
I very rarely judge people.I must say though...someone who judges someone for being late....not knowing their life, their situations is a fool ! The very person you are judging maybe a person who helps people in their life maybe the very person who helps you...that is their dedication in life.....
My pastors wife is a nurse and she is late every other sunday.Why? I don't know and I could care less...she is a wonderful lady!
You ask the moms on this post....you questioned, why they go to church.....that is between them and God .And there you go again judging.......
I have said the same thing a few times on here" We will have to agree to disagree"....and I second that motion!
Yes, I said it's petty of me
Yes, I said it's petty of me to let the behavior of others bug me, but that doesn't mean the BEHAVIOR itself is acceptable!
Also, I have been mulling over these various points and doing some research. Here's some info I found on an Episcopalian website:
"Entering the Church (Late)
The time to arrive at church is before the service starts, but for some unknown reason, it has become the custom - or rather the bad habit - for some to come to church late. If you arrive after the Divine Liturgy begins, try to enter the church quietly - and observe what is happening. If the Epistle or Gospel is being read or the Little or Great Entrance is taking place, wait until it is finished to quickly find a seat. If Father is giving the sermon, stay in the back until he has concluded. If in doubt, check with one of the ushers to see if it is a good time to seat yourself. Try not to interrupt the Liturgy with you entrance. By the way, the best way to avoid this problem is to arrive on time - then you don't have to wonder if it's okay to come in or not. People who come late to the Liturgy should not partake of the Eucharist! "
I've found similar admonishments AGAINST BEING LATE on websites for various other churches, including Catholic, Lutheren, Baptist and Methodist.
I have yet to come across "Pastor Feelgood's Church of Anything Goes" who says that simply 'making the effort' is honky-dory with him no matter what time you actually arrive! LOL! If you find such a link, I seriously would like to read it because that just runs counter to virtually everything I've come upon, and as I said I'm trying to do research so I'd like to see alternative views.
I don't think any of these clerics are being "JUDGMENTAL" either, nor do I think they are 'condemning" those who are late or trying to 'punish' them. They are just echoing what is, in fact, common sense!
Well, I've already pasted my
Well, I've already pasted my pastor's comment verbatim... he is the "Pastor Feelgood" of a very old, established Presbyterian Church. Sure he'd probably prefer everyone was on time, but the important thing to him is that people come. And you can't get much more staid than Presbyterians (lol)...
OK, I said I wasn't going to say anything else... shoot!
Dang, one more thing. Remember the Pharasis (spelling?) got hung up on rules and traditions and missed the opportunity to be with Jesus, who was right in front of them...
Lovemy4 is a discussion leader for North Central Phoenix, tired mother of 4 great kids and wife to one great husband.
I can see your point, but
I can see your point, but instead, we should be happy that they did arrive after all.
If you don't want to scoot down, just let them walk past you and sit toward the middle.
We never know how a morning may go for someone, and through my own experience, I know anything can happen when you least expect it, especially when you are trying to get somewhere on time.
Remember the saying when something bothers you again, Don't sweat the small stuff.
DHC
Miriam, I just want to say
Miriam, I just want to say that you do raise some good points. I am habitually late, and it's something I dislike about myself. The fact that I have two small children is just my newest way to justify a trait I've long been guilty of. I think you do make a good point about making it a priority to be on time. Why should worship be held to a lesser standard than work or school?
One thing that made me think a bit differently was when we were joining our church. The pastor said that the spritual crescendo of the service, where he announces the forgiveness of our sins on Jesus' behalf, happens just seven minutes into the service. If I'm late, I miss the spiritual highlight. Not to mention how frenzied I feel rushing in somewhere late; it takes me that much longer to decompress and start to feel the peace and calm I'm so desperately seeking.
I now try harder to be on time, less for others' benefit than for my own. I worry more about what I might be missing.
GopherGirl