Help I need advice, I work in a male dominated profession and out of our dept of 12 there are only 3 females, myself included. Well there is one lady who I will call Sally, she is divorced, single, has an adult child, and basically lives the life of Samantha from Sex and the City. I say this because she constantly tells us about her dates, boyfriends, etc. Well the guy who I refer to as Mo is really family oriented, married, and has children in elementary school. Sally and Mo seem to be getting a tad bit too cozy here in the office and I am starting to feel uncomfortable. Sally and Mo carpool together, go to lunch together, visit each others cubicles more than their own. Sally has a house close to where we work so she has on occasion been home sick and has asked him to come visit, or fix something for her. Lame excuses, but Mo continues to fall for them. I feel bad for his wife who probably has no clue that all this is going on, his wife packs him lunch and yet he goes to lunch with sally but later in the day I see him trying to finish his lunch before he goes home. Last week she was sick at home and he was at work, he rarely goes out for lunch but made an excuse that he had to run home, she spilled the beans and called in later to have me relay a message to him, she also mentioned that he just left her house and should be back shortly. Today I think I had enough cause she took off with his vehicle to get lunch, without him knowing, I asked him if he was crazy and he had this look of fear on his face. She also refers to herself as the 2nd wife, and today he had her on speaker and her last words were "Love you", of course he didn't respond but was quick to hang up the phone. I get along with Mo and him and I can share personal stories and I just want to say something to him to bring him back to reality and get him off cloud 9. I know that the guys here will not say anything to him about chillin out and the other lady is sort of oblivious to us all. So I feel like I should say something to him before she ruins his marriage but am I really in that position to say anything?? I get along with Sally as well but the more and more she does this the more and more I loose respect for her. Help!!
If I were the wife, I'd want
If I were the wife, I'd want to know!
I'd tell Mo that women talk and that his wife WILL find out how chummy he and sally are. It's just a matter of time. Ask him if he'd act the same way if his wife worked here too? If not, then he's betraying her!
Maybe he'll listen to you.
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
hmmm... as the old saying
hmmm... as the old saying goes - it takes two to tango. Looks like Mo is doing a pretty good job at ruining his marriage himself....
Hmm I can only say that most
Hmm I can only say that most offices have rules about dating your coworkers. That being said if you say something to him beyond what you've said you risk getting pulled further into their affair, especially if it turns ugly. I hate to tell you to say nothing because this is a marriage we're talking about. Could you let your boss know in an anonymous way and let him deal with it business rules wise? Is that being a coward? Not to make a joke but I have a yellow stripe going down my back when it comes to these types of situations.
bookworm_mom ~ mommy of twins
I think the person who is in
I think the person who is in charge of the office or HR needs to be the one to tell them to tone it down. Also, if he is married and he is participating in these little situations with her then he obviously is aware that he is going to ruin his marriage and maybe he is the type that doesn't care. Either way, that is really between them. His wife will eventually find out and they will be over and he may realize was it really worth it.
Yea that is the reason why I
Yea that is the reason why I didn't want to say anything to Mo, I know the boss knows about this but he has been gone for a few days and during those few days it has just been absurd. I think that I will just back off of this one and hope that I don't get questioned about this later down the line even though I know that I will cause I am the main contact person here and I hear everything and anything that is said in this dept. I think that he feels guilty but he acts like such a child around her, giggling and having no sense of control.
report to HR...
report to HR...
H~
Mom of 2 Daughters - Kelly (3 yrs) and Skylar (21 mos old)
zoostationu2@hotmail.com
I am curious if his wife
I am curious if his wife knows. If she don't, she sure needs to know. If I was there, and really close to them both, I would have to ask, "does your wife know that she went off in your car?"
This behavior is horrible, immature, and selffish.
I hope you drop a bombshell one day and tell them they need to stop acting single when one isn't.
I agree with the previous post and think you should report it to HR. There shouldn't be this kind of hanky panky in the office that interferes with work, or another co-workers work.
I knew a girl from high school that was a teacher, along with her husband, (a coach). Well, her husband began having an affair with another co-worker (teacher). He was just found guilty the end of last year for shooting his wife in the head (her 8mths pregnant with 2nd baby). You can look it up yourself online. Type in David Temple guilty of murder in Katy Texas.
Fooling around just don't pay off, and what is terrible, the poor wives never know about it until its too late.
Look at the Laci Petterson situation. Usually it is the innocent ones that get killed just over the sellfish acts of the spouse.
One Happy Mom in Arizona.
That is just horrible, all
That is just horrible, all for nothing, he lost everyone in the end including freedom. I hope he stays in prison until he dies. He took an innocent person and little unborn baby's life all just for a stupid affair. I don't understand people, I don't.
That sounds like ugliness
That sounds like ugliness waiting to happen, and you don't want to be in the middle of it. I'd let HR know. If you are close to him, maybe drop him a hint that his affair is well known.
I've been the wife in the situation and yes, she deserves to know. But-you don't want to be the one to tell her.
Well that is a sad
Well that is a sad situation. If you are friends with MO, you can maybe suggest that you are observing types of behavior that you don't respect and it is very disappointing to you.... imagine how 'your wife' would feel if she observed the same things. One thing that I have learned in life is that you can not fix things or people. And they will make their own mistakes and will suffer their own consequences. As sad as it is, there is nothing you can really do except tell him how his behavior makes you feel. If you go and tell his wife or get involved, then you are getting yourself into a situation where you do not belong - unless you are close with them all. If your office does have a policy, consider the HR route. Obviously Mo has issues that are beyond the office, otherwise he wouldn't be exhibiting this type of behavior. Good luck.
personally, I think you
personally, I think you should mind your own business. If hey really are having an affair, they will be exposed sooner or later, he'll slip up and make a mistake.The wife has got to have some sense of what is going on.
If you meddle, it's just going to blow up in your face. I would stay out of it.
Some affairs go on for 3
Some affairs go on for 3 years or longer without anyone knowing. I knew a girl that was married to a police officer and he was having an affair with his partner and he now has 2 children by her. I believe the wife found out by someone else telling her.
The sooner the wife gets a hint, the quicker this little game is over.
I agree with not being the one to tell the wife, because it will backfire and cause trouble in the workforce, but I would sure hint to the wife about the lady driving their car and just see what her reaction is.
I would beg for someone to tell me if this was my husband. Some wives may put up with this behavior, but others would be gone in a minute.
One Happy Mom in Arizona.
If i were this guys wife, i
If i were this guys wife, i would want to know! BUT - i don't think it's any of your business to tell his wife. If you are feeling uncomfortable at the office because of things they are doing and saying, then report it to HR.
You should be very careful here. The last thing you need is to tell his wife and have her go off on you because she refuses to believe it.
The signs are there for the wife (as they are for all of us) if she wants to see them.
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
~ Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
As a former HR manager, only
As a former HR manager, only if their behavior translates to you working in a hostile environment can you **really** involve HR.
I have to agree with the last 2 posts. (Katy1999 and Me). You can say something like, "Hey, I don't want to know what's going on, but I feel like some thing is, and I don't want to be in the middle," and still be respectful.
I do not condone their antics; however, these people are not family members - they are your co-workers.
If it were family, yeah, I'd be all over it in telling the hubby to cool it or you'd be telling the wife.
Mouse_tales is a discussion leader in the East Valley for arizonamoms.com. She spends most of her days juggling her duties as a (bio & step) mom, wife, and business owner. Her three little kittens range in age from 5 to 13.
I agree with the last three
I agree with the last three post...katie, me & mouse tales..
First , you need to think about your job and how this may all impact you if you say something.Second as wrong as it may be they are adults.As bad as I feel for his wife...this is their journey.
I can hear your are uncomfortable with the situation and I understand...so my advice to you is take care of yourself and not worry about them.
You guys surprised me
You guys surprised me (mwheeler, katy1999, me, Mousetales)....I can NOT believe what you guys are saying...
The employer CANNOT by law retatiate (sp?) people for making such report nor complaint. If that happens, then the complainer can file a complaint with EEOC.
We had a situation where a couple of married people were having affairs with single people at work and for quite some time, people were uncomfortable and were afraid of reporting in fear, especially when gossiping was going around and so on...the final straw was when one of the couple got caught having s*x at the parking lot BY an employee of the real estate management company that was just below us in the same building and he reported to HR. Next thing we know, these two people got fired on the spot and the rest of the employees in the one building (we have 4 buildings) were being interviewed as part of investigation which in turn also fired the other couple and a few people who were aware of their affairs but didn't do anything about it.
This was about 4 years ago and ever since that "cleanup", the company got much better to work for instead of having to go in every day and deal with low morale there...
If two people (unattached) are dating or if a married couple works at the same company, then that is a different story AS LONG AS THEY ARE professional on the job and do NOT show/use inappropriate behaviors.
H~
Mom of 2 Daughters - Kelly (3 yrs) and Skylar (21 mos old)
zoostationu2@hotmail.com
What's wrong with an
What's wrong with an anonymous note to the wife?
It's fairly easy to google or reverse look up someone phone number and address.
What is the moral obligation here? Is it to the wife and children? Or is it to her friend? Or IS saying something to her friend, 9"Look, do you know what people are saying about you? This is bound to look bad to you wife. As your friend, I thought that I'd better warn you"), fulfilling a moral obligation to both of them?
It's a tough call. But standing up and doing the right thing, sometimes means accepting negative consequences to yourself. If there even are any....
"Only a life lived for others, is the life worthwhile" - Albert Einstein
What goes on in other
What goes on in other people's private lives is no one's business but theirs. But what goes on at work is everyone's business.
Best is to report to HR and let them take care of the rest...The wife will eventually get a clue if the husband gets fired.
That was what EEOC said when they had reps educating everybody about harrassments and discriminations on the company's premises/time.
H~
Mom of 2 Daughters - Kelly (3 yrs) and Skylar (21 mos old)
zoostationu2@hotmail.com
Thank you for standing up
Thank you for standing up and telling it like it should be told.
I am so thankful there are some people out there that don't just sit and watch this sick behavior go on in the workplace.
No one should have to work in this environment, and the wife should get a hint from someone, or if he does get fired, that is even better.
That is our problem, no one wants to cause conflict, or get involved with any kind of abuse.
Some wife is getting crapped on, and believe me, if this was me, I would be so thankful to know that someone cared enough about me to let me know.
Step one is HR, because this should not be tolerated by any witnesses at work. They need to keep it private and away from work.
Being in the public makes this behavior everyone elses business.
It may not be an affair, and I hope it is not, but I would love to know what the wife thinks about her husband having lunch at another woman's apartment.
One Happy Mom in Arizona.
I'd say, if anything that
I'd say, if anything that she should speak to this guy and tell him what other people are thinking, as a warning, and leave it at that.
Everything she said sounds pretty damning.....but it didn't sound like anyone had actually observed them "in the act".......what if, on the off chance that there isn't an affair going on, someone decides to(anonymously or otherwise) tell the wife they THINK the guy is having an affair.....what damage could be caused there? That's the emotional equivalent of dropping an atomic bomb on multiple people's lives, so it should be very carefully considered.
I have seen situations where some well intentioned person tells the wife, but she's in denial and then turns all her venom on the messenger. Some women don't want to know, and they hate you for telling them and shattering their illusions. From what I read in the other post by momieof2 about her issue with her husband, it sounds like she has enough drama on her hands without opening this can of worms.
Ok so I went to reply to
Ok so I went to reply to this yesterday and thought, no I want to hear more responses until I do just to clarify if I'm not being less caring of the situation than I should be. Here are my thoughts.
First off, you need to direct it to your HR and basically state the following, Mo and Sally are a little too cozy lately and honestly since I know Mo is married it makes me feel a little uneasy with their behavior. I don't know EXACTLY what's going on, but our work environment is not happy hour and I feel their behavior has crossed the line of what's exceptable in a work place. Your HR department can then take it from there. Some work places DO NOT have issues with this period as long as it does not effect someones work. In this case it might but that's HR's job to take what you have said and address it from there. If you don't like the outcome you can do 2 things, file a formal complaint with the state or ask to be transferred or quit your job (I guess that's really 3 thing lol).
As far as telling his wife anything, save yourself the drama and don't. For 2 reasons also, 1. there might not really be anything extra going on and you could possibly destroy a marriage single handly and 2. You could lose your job if it were ever to come out that you told. How you ask, AZ is a right to work state and if Mo found out you said something to his wife YOU have created the hostile work environment and HR will fire you.
A little word of advice also, if it's as bad as you say it is, the wife knows probably already that something is going on. There is absolutely no right or reason to throw it more into her face. Your best line is talk to your HR (in a very private meeting) and then turn your cheek. And for all you ladies that disagree you need to look at it like this, she has never caught them doing the deed, or in any other compromising situation so by telling the wife (even anonomously - excuse my sp error if any) she is really single handly causing someone's heartache. I know we all say we'd want to know but from my experience the hardest conversation I've had recently is one of my best friend's telling me what my husband said to her and single handly causing me to tell my husband to leave. AND she knows me, momie of 2 does not know this women.
"It's not to late to become who you've always wanted to be..."
I once worked in an IT
I once worked in an IT department where we had a group of folks who went to lunch together several times a week. Once (married) man and one (married) woman were exceptionally close. They weren't having an affair.
Even if you don't really believe it, act as if that's true for these two people. Everybody has (even long) lapses in judgement.
I think sending a letter or
I think sending a letter or even going to the wife personally is going to far, giving the informantion she has....as stated above they haven't been caught doing anything except flirting....maybe to close to the line...that I will say.
And it sounds like Sally is being the one who is the driving force.
I think going to the wife is putting doubt in her head, which someone who isn't close to her has no right to do.
I think putting doubt in someones head when there isn't enough to do so...is wrong.If I recieved some strange note....I would first think it was a joke...and then it would turn to doubt..then I would have a choice to make believe my husband or some strange note? The choice my husband!
Now, I did say she needed to take care of herself, which means if she feels the needed to go to HR then by all means do so.That I totally get.....
I myself worked in HR and I never had to deal with a office romance...but I did have a sexual harrasment case.And I researched the case to the book...and then had a lawyer look over my findings.Even with all I did to keep it private.....well I think you know where I am going with that....
So, I say if it is bugging her that bad...then of course go to HR...that is what they are there for.If she isn't sure...then maybe there is another approach she can take upon herself to help herself to not let it get to her.
I think if my husband was
I think if my husband was acting like this, there would be no doubt in my mind. Why would I want my husband driving to work with someone that he spends his entire day flirting with, eating lunch, going to her apartment for lunch, letting her drive his car, and hearing the lady tell my husband that she loves him.
I don't see any doubt here. A woman would have to be totally blind or in complete denial to not see what is happening.
Maybe the wife is like you and will approve of the behavior, but many of us women wouldn't tolerate it one minute.
One Happy Mom in Arizona.
Huh......??? Who said they
Huh......??? Who said they approved of the behavior?
I am confused about the last comment, where you said "maybe the wife is like you..."........... I don't see anyone else who said they would approve of or tolerate this from their own husbands, just that it isn't neccessarily momieof2's place to intervene and confront the wife with all this information, and even if she does............who says the wife is going to beleive her? I don't think mwheeler was saying she' be happy with her husband acting as the man in the story related above is, she's just saying that she'd find this revelation strange and hard to beleive coming from one of her husband's coworkers that she doesn't know very well.
Honestly - if someone I didn't know came to me with this kind of story out of the blue, I'd think they were nuts and wonder what their motivation was. I would have to catch him myself to beleive it.
Katy...thanks I am glad you
Katy...thanks I am glad you understood... :)
I don't think I would ever approve.....ummm, no I wouldn't!
sdebralh....I think you are
sdebralh....I think you are off base with me totally!
I didn't say I approved nor did I say I would tolerate such behavior.
The fact is we don't know what the wife knows, we don't know her emotional ability.....and for someone to drop a note or a person who doesn't know her confront her.I think that is irrational.Especially, when you are bringing something to light on a assumption.Even if you,me or anyone else thinks their behavior is inappropriate..... away from work it is no ones buisness.So, if this is just a issue of work...then go to HR....but beyond those working doors.....I feel it is impudent to bring this to the wifes attention on a guess.
And if the wife is in denial....that doesn't make her a bad person...we don't know anything about their relationship.
Not one woman here said they
Not one woman here said they approved of or would tolerate this type of behavior. I don't think any woman in a healthy relationship would want her husband acting like this with another woman.
There are so many "What if's" in this situation. The fact of the matter is no one knows that it has come to a sexual affair. Yes, they may have crossed the line on many different levels, but do we actually know sex is involved? Does it sound like there behavior is inappropriate at work, yes. That's why you go to HR with it.
And by the way...IF this guy were to be fired from his job as a result of his choices and behavior, that does not necessarily mean his wife will know why he was fired.
I like you would be able to see differences in my husband. I would pick up on him eating less at night or gaining weight from eating two lunches. Plus, my husband can't lie to save his life. LOL!
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
~ Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
It does NOT always take in
It does NOT always take in the act sex to get them fired...once the HR is informed of an alleged affair, they start the investigation process by scooping into emails, phone calls, previous history of possible link to promotion, etc to get the hard core evidence. Usually that takes a couple weeks before they wrap up the investigation and then the appropriate HR management level personnel will speak with alleged couple.
Most of the time, alleged affairs are done in the office or on corporate premises or on business trips - where else can they do without "thinking they could never get caught" areas? They could do at a lover's apartment but that would take a lot of time and potentionally raise a stink....
H~
Mom of 2 Daughters - Kelly (3 yrs) and Skylar (21 mos old)
zoostationu2@hotmail.com
I am all for going to HR. I
I am all for going to HR. I am well aware that these two can be fired even if they did not have sex. I agree they have crossed many lines. I am also aware that these two may think it's just between the two of them, but with them bringing it into the office the way they did, they have opened themselves up to a "third party" (and probably a fourth and fifth party) who is feeling uncomfortable with the situation and has every right to go to HR.
I am not for the individual who posted this going to her co-workers wife. That's all.
I am not condoning the behavior of these two adults who want to act like teenagers. I feel for any individual who has a spouse that feels it's ok to be dishonest.
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
~ Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
HR's rights legally only
HR's rights legally only govern work hours behavior. If somebody is doing something "elicit" with another during lunch or otherwise, technically they cannot interfere as it is personal time.
Again...if it is interfering with her work environment, then yes, it constitues a hostile work environment and should be reported.
Although all legal rights are designed to protect a whistle blower, there are so many other rammifications to those who know. I have been on the other end of that stick and have seen it happen to others. It can cause the innocent person (i.e., the person) who did nothing wrong to feel shamed/embarrassed into leaving.
This is a highly personal decision. From my vantage, and if it were me, I would handle it as I stated.
Mouse_tales is a discussion leader in the East Valley for arizonamoms.com. She spends most of her days juggling her duties as a (bio & step) mom, wife, and business owner. Her three little kittens range in age from 5 to 13.
Okay I think that someone
Okay I think that someone may have already beat me to the whole HR thing, turns out this morning the HR director was already here in the office talking to my supervisor behind closed doors. Just to clarify I never said that i was going to go to the wife to disclose this information, I had only mentioned that I considered talking or hinting to Mo of his actions. But the more I thought about it, he is a grown man and is aware of his actions. Today is a completely different atmosphere, mo isn't as flirtacious with Sally and has already been talking to her in a different tone of voice. Well we will see where today leads...........
I've beenin situations like
I've beenin situations like before at the office and it's no fun. But unless you and Mo are very good friends - do things outside the office, etc - I'd stay out of it. It all sounds very suspect but there's no way to really know what's going on here and you've got to maintain office relationships as best you can.
Susie is a discussion leader in the east valley for arizonamoms.com. She has two sons, ages 7 and 3.